Starting over with "vanilla" HST.

S

scientific muscle

New Member
Hi guys. Been laid off from lifting since my wife got pregnant and we had a baby daughter. She is a cutie and a lot of work, but well worth it.
Summer is finally here an I need to clean up the gym and dust off the IRON!

I decided to start with Bryan's original HST program.

Fullbody workouts, 3x/week.

2 weeks of ramping 15s (1 set of 15)
2 weeks of ramping 10s (2 sets of 10)
2 weeks of ramping 5s (3 sets of 5 reps)
2 weeks of 5 rep maxes (3 sets of 5 reps)
1 week of SD.

Start cycle over.

Fullbody routine.
Lunges
RDLs
Rack Pulls
Calf raises
Hanging leg raises
DB Flyes
DB Presses
Supported Rows
DB laterals
NG Pulldowns
Dips
DB Curls

I think I can handle this routine.
I will keep the diet simple and try to maintain adequate protein, vitamin and water intake, along with a few supplements like whey, fish oil, and soy lecithin.

I will attempt to do morning workouts at 7 am for approx. one hour which I should be able to fit into my new business (and baby) schedule, but we'll see if that works out. I'll have to start going to bed earlier to pull that off.
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I imagine I'll grow muscle back at a fairly rapid pace using the above "vanilla" HST program, especially after such a long layoff. I am out of shape badly, but it will come back soon enough if I keep up the program.

I hope I have the discipline to follow this through now. I'll be starting this Monday.
 
I just realized that these workouts will end up rather lengthy with 12 exercises for the whole body.
So to make sheduling and consistency easier, I will split things up using the HST lower/upper 6 day/week split.

Lower body: (Monday, Wednesday, Friday)

Lunges
RDLs
Rack Pulls
Calf raises
Hnaging leg raises

Upper body: (Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday)

DB Flyes
DB Press
Supported Rows
DB Laterals
NG Pulldowns
Dips
DB Curls


That should be easier to fit each workout into a one hour window 6 times/week.  
Rather than try for 3 x/week and end up doing 2 hour long marathon sessions, and then sleeping in the next day.

More manageable, more consistent schedule.
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As I understand it from your post , it appears you've had at least 4-5 months completely off?

Have you considered that a more "bang for buck" routine may get you back up to snuff quicker? You could then switch to more of a "covering all the bases" routine once general mass and strength were in place.


A.)
FRONT SQUAT
OVER HEAD PRESS
CHEST SUPPORTED ROW


B.)
ROMANIAN DEAD LIFT
FLAT BENCH (or dips)
UPRIGHT ROW


Personally I would take advantage of muscle memory and hammer these movements using A, B, OFF, A, OFF, B, OFF- (repeat).

I would spend a week (or two at most) working 12's to get the neural memory/coordination working and to get a basic idea of 1RM (by using calculators not by maxing out) then I'd drop right to 3x5 or 3x6 while inserting a 8-10x3 into one movement each workout making sure to use this on differing movements each time. I would begin at 75-80% of what I figured my 1RM to be and just progress weight 4-5 lbs minimum 8-10 maximum and go 6-8 weeks while keeping an eye on increasing scale weight .

After a deload/unload/"strategic De-conditioning" , I would THEN begin HST if I was so inclined. JUST MHO of course.
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I just realized that these workouts will end up rather lengthy with 12 exercises for the whole body.</div>

Its amazing how common sense settles in after someone has priorities in life!
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You suddenly &quot;jumped&quot; into a &quot;simplify and win&quot; routine all by yourself!
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Well done!
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<div>
(mikeynov @ May 31 2009,1:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Very cool, I'll be interested to watch how this goes.</div>
Thanks. I don't have time to keep a log, but I'll try to keep in touch with the forum and update my progress. Maybe I'll do some &quot;before&quot; and &quot;after&quot; pics. They are more interesting than measurements anyway.
I have had alomst a YEAR off from serious lifting! I look like crap now (flabby), but hopefully I'll be more lean and mean in a few months.
smile.gif
 
<div>
(RUSS @ May 31 2009,1:53)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As I understand it from your post , it appears you've had at least 4-5 months completely off?

             Have you considered that a more &quot;bang for buck&quot; routine may get you back up to snuff quicker? You could then switch to more of a &quot;covering all the bases&quot; routine once general mass and strength were in place.


        A.)
          FRONT SQUAT
          OVER HEAD PRESS
          CHEST SUPPORTED ROW
         

        B.)
          ROMANIAN DEAD LIFT
          FLAT BENCH (or dips)
          UPRIGHT ROW


Personally I would take advantage of muscle memory and hammer these movements using A, B, OFF, A, OFF, B, OFF- (repeat).

                I would spend a week (or two at most) working 12's to get the neural memory/coordination working and to get a basic idea of 1RM (by using calculators not by maxing out) then I'd drop right to 3x5 or 3x6 while inserting a 8-10x3 into one movement each workout making sure to use this on differing movements each time. I would begin at 75-80% of what I figured my 1RM to be and just progress weight 4-5 lbs minimum 8-10 maximum and go 6-8 weeks while keeping an eye on increasing scale weight .

                  After a deload/unload/&quot;strategic De-conditioning&quot; , I would THEN begin HST if I was so inclined.  JUST MHO of course.
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</div>
Front squats for sets of 12?
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I like front squats and all, but they lend themselves exceptionally poorly to higher reps, imho.

For pure bodybuilding purposes, I also think high bar squats rape front squats :-x
 
<div>
(mikeynov @ May 31 2009,3:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(RUSS @ May 31 2009,1:53)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As I understand it from your post , it appears you've had at least 4-5 months completely off?

             Have you considered that a more &quot;bang for buck&quot; routine may get you back up to snuff quicker? You could then switch to more of a &quot;covering all the bases&quot; routine once general mass and strength were in place.


        A.)
          FRONT SQUAT
          OVER HEAD PRESS
          CHEST SUPPORTED ROW
         

        B.)
          ROMANIAN DEAD LIFT
          FLAT BENCH (or dips)
          UPRIGHT ROW


Personally I would take advantage of muscle memory and hammer these movements using A, B, OFF, A, OFF, B, OFF- (repeat).

                I would spend a week (or two at most) working 12's to get the neural memory/coordination working and to get a basic idea of 1RM (by using calculators not by maxing out) then I'd drop right to 3x5 or 3x6 while inserting a 8-10x3 into one movement each workout making sure to use this on differing movements each time. I would begin at 75-80% of what I figured my 1RM to be and just progress weight 4-5 lbs minimum 8-10 maximum and go 6-8 weeks while keeping an eye on increasing scale weight .

                  After a deload/unload/&quot;strategic De-conditioning&quot; , I would THEN begin HST if I was so inclined.  JUST MHO of course.
smile.gif
</div>
Front squats for sets of 12?
sad.gif


I like front squats and all, but they lend themselves exceptionally poorly to higher reps, imho.

For pure bodybuilding purposes, I also think high bar squats rape front squats :-x</div>
Wouldn't you think that high bar squats would be a bit too much alternated with RDL almost every other day?

I am recommending 12 rep front squats for the first week or two only to grease the neural pathways and get a sense of where one would be for a good starting RM .

smile.gif
 
<div>
(RUSS @ May 31 2009,4:55)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(mikeynov @ May 31 2009,3:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(RUSS @ May 31 2009,1:53)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As I understand it from your post , it appears you've had at least 4-5 months completely off?

             Have you considered that a more &quot;bang for buck&quot; routine may get you back up to snuff quicker? You could then switch to more of a &quot;covering all the bases&quot; routine once general mass and strength were in place.


        A.)
          FRONT SQUAT
          OVER HEAD PRESS
          CHEST SUPPORTED ROW
         

        B.)
          ROMANIAN DEAD LIFT
          FLAT BENCH (or dips)
          UPRIGHT ROW


Personally I would take advantage of muscle memory and hammer these movements using A, B, OFF, A, OFF, B, OFF- (repeat).

                I would spend a week (or two at most) working 12's to get the neural memory/coordination working and to get a basic idea of 1RM (by using calculators not by maxing out) then I'd drop right to 3x5 or 3x6 while inserting a 8-10x3 into one movement each workout making sure to use this on differing movements each time. I would begin at 75-80% of what I figured my 1RM to be and just progress weight 4-5 lbs minimum 8-10 maximum and go 6-8 weeks while keeping an eye on increasing scale weight .

                  After a deload/unload/&quot;strategic De-conditioning&quot; , I would THEN begin HST if I was so inclined.  JUST MHO of course.
smile.gif
</div>
Front squats for sets of 12?
sad.gif


I like front squats and all, but they lend themselves exceptionally poorly to higher reps, imho.

For pure bodybuilding purposes, I also think high bar squats rape front squats :-x</div>
Wouldn't you think that high bar squats would be a bit too much alternated with RDL almost every other day?

                     I am recommending 12 rep front squats for the first week or two only to grease the neural pathways and get a sense of where one would be for a good starting RM .

smile.gif
</div>
Maybe, would depend on the person. High bar squats aren't that hard on the lower back, imho, low bar squats might be more of a problem.

And I dunno, I don't see the problem with him just starting with a default HST routine using conservative RM's.

Quite frankly, given how long he's been off, I'd use a routine something like this:

High Bar Squat
RDL
Dips or Bench
Chins or Pulldowns

Performed thrice weekly in standard HST format using very conservative RM's and form nazi mechanics.
 
I must respectfully disagree , IMHO front squats are infintely easier on lower back than back squats both high and low bar (I'm not sure of your equating front squats with low bar? explain? My understanding of high/low bar is completely different than what I hear you saying).

Not trying to get into a pissing contest here, I respect your opinions and have learned a lot from your posts Mikey.

I like your 3x/wk routine suggestion, except IMHO the absense of an overhead press of some kind is asking for shoulder trouble on down the line. With overhead press lower back will become an issue (assuming the load is cleaned from a dead position) hence my recommendation.

There would be nothing wrong with starting with HST , but it would be MUCH quicker to hammer a strength base back up then switch to hypertrophy when load is sufficient to cause greater gains that way IMHO.

This is assuming he wants to build strength and mass - if he is looking for a quick beach body than I agree that your suggestion coupled with cardio would be the way to go.
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Sorry, as I re-read your post I understand your high/low reference- I thought you were calling front squats low bar- my mistake.
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Looks like we both agree that given his time off a more abbreviated routine would work best.
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For what it's worth, I totally agree about the shoulder health thing with the overhead press, I'm not suggesting it as a long term solution.

However, in terms of affecting as much muscle mass in as few exercises as possible as a short term way of gaining back muscle/strength, something like a bench/dip/even an incline bench would give you more bang for your buck.

He could always just do some extra external rotations or something afterwards...
 
Thanks for the suggestions guys, but I have this under control.
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I believe the routine I described above will reap the MOST benefit for now. I am following Haycock's program to the T, and the exercises I chose I know fit my body better than anything you guys have suggested. I know my body better than anyone else on earth after all. And I am no newbie to lifting.

Lunges really hit my quads and glutes better than squats.
RDLS hit my hamstrings and erectors.
Rack pulls hit the glutes, quads, erectors and traps in a dynamic way for me.
Calf raises to isolate the calves.
Hanging leg raises finish off the hip flexors and abdominals.

Lower body is done...toasted actually.

No need for any squatting here.
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The upper body workout is extremely thorough also.

Flyes for the pectorals.
presses for delts.
laterals for side delts and rotator cuff.
supported rows for rhomboids, rear delts, upper lats and lower traps.
pulldowns for lats and biceps and forearms.
dips to finish off the triceps and pecs, etc.
curls to finish off the arm flexors.

This will definitely build muscle all over without missing anything. The main question, is if I can keep consistent with my busy schedule.

Time will tell. I'll get some &quot;before&quot; pics asap. Then I'll post pics after one full cycle and again after a second cycle. Wish me luck. I am badly out of shape, but I should respond excellently to the new stimulus.
 
We are kinda completely hi-jacking Carl's thread here, but I disagree with you also, Mike. I find front squats much more comfortable and productive for bodybuilding purposes, including for very high reps. My lower back feels more stress with the bar behind my head and it doesn't matter what the exact position is. I would guess it is probably a structural thing ...
 
I guess I'll start a log. I started at the beginning of the 15s and focused on form. The weights used were teeny-tiny! I'll probably be sore anyway, I feel like a total noob who never touched a weight before!
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<div>
(leegee38 @ Jun. 01 2009,9:10)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">We are kinda completely hi-jacking Carl's thread here, but I disagree with you also, Mike.  I find front squats much more comfortable and productive for bodybuilding purposes, including for very high reps.  My lower back feels more stress with the bar behind my head and it doesn't matter what the exact position is.  I would guess it is probably a structural thing ...</div>
I guess I just find the concept of &quot;comfortable&quot; front squats to be a little strange.  If you think about the mechanics of the lift, the bar placement in a high bar squat makes near infinitely more sense in that you will not be limiting your leg strength by your capacity (or lack thereof) to maintain thoracic extension, as you do in a front squat.

Just my humble opinion, of course.
 
All the best Sci. Hope you manage to get a good cycle in. It'll be interesting to see how quickly you get back to your strength levels. I'll be checking how things go in your log.

As for front squats, like any other lift, I suppose it's a case of 'practice makes perfect'. Maintaining thoracic extension is tough when you don't perform them that often, esp. for higher reps, but with regular use it ceases to be a major problem even for high rep sets. That's my experience anyway. Lots of cleans must help too.

Like leegee, I'd much rather hold a bar out front than high on my traps. Always disliked high-bar squats because of the discomfort factor. Low-bar and front squats are my faves for comfort. Of course, generally speaking, I'm going to be able to use less weight for front squats than for back squats for the same rep count so that helps with extension thoracic too.
 
Shaddup and lift, SM! You have squandered enough valuable lifting time already.
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Congrats on the tadpole!
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<div>
(Lol @ Jun. 02 2009,2:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">All the best Sci. Hope you manage to get a good cycle in. It'll be interesting to see how quickly you get back to your strength levels. I'll be checking how things go in your log.

As for front squats, like any other lift, I suppose it's a case of 'practice makes perfect'. Maintaining thoracic extension is tough when you don't perform them that often, esp. for higher reps, but with regular use it ceases to be a major problem even for high rep sets. That's my experience anyway. Lots of cleans must help too.

Like leegee, I'd much rather hold a bar out front than high on my traps. Always disliked high-bar squats because of the discomfort factor. Low-bar and front squats are my faves for comfort. Of course, generally speaking, I'm going to be able to use less weight for front squats than for back squats for the same rep count so that helps with extension thoracic too.</div>
Just as a weird question, are you sure you guys aren't treating a high bar squat like a low bar squat, i.e. emphasizing sitting back and so forth? The knees will have to travel forward quite a bit to balance properly at the bottom (sort of like, but not as extreme as, a front squat).
 
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