STILL confused

S

_Simon_

Active Member
hey guys, i'm still just a bit confused regarding how to increase the weights for my 2nd hst cycle.

ok, i've had my last workout recently and am sding now, and my 5RMs for pretty much every exercise are now about 5kg higher than before (which i am thriller about!). SO, does that mean i should increase EVERY weight that do by 5kg?

eg. if my starting weight in the 15s for bench is 27.5kg, and my end weight will NOW (due to increased 5RM from 1st cycle) be 62.5kg (in my 1st cycle my 5RM was 56kg), does that mean that in my 2nd cycle my starting weight will be 32.5kg? (increased by 5?) OR should i just increase my RMs accordingly? like... increase my 15RM from 32.5kg to 35/37.5kg or so? and my 10RM?

i'm just really confused about this because in the HST FAQ, it states you should add about 5-10 pounds to ALL your lifts. but i've read (from one of charles ridgely's articles) that an increased RANGE between starting weight and end weight is what determines an effective cycle.

any thoughts??? so THIS would mean that if i increased every weight by say 5kg, the range would not in fact increase, it would stay the same. BUT if i left my starting weight at 27.5kg for my 2nd cycle, THEN the range would increase!

please help :S
 
if its your first cycle and/or you are new to training,id go ahead and increase the weights as described ie; increase by 5-10 per exercise,however if this becomes too much then simply adjust the weights accordingly.you may find your strength increases rapidly at first,as your body quickly adapts to the loads and exercise variations.
 
hi lcars!

i'm referring to my SECOND cycle, and the move from 1st to 2nd cycle, how i should increase my weights in my 2nd cycle (that is, in regards to the OVERALL increase on every exercise, if that makes sense lol)

thanks!
 
no it makes sense what you are asking,it would be easier if you could post your 15rm,then working out the increments would be simpler.

i suggest you try adding a couple of pounds to each lift  or atleast 10lbs to your rep max's and see how you go on.
if you have to zig-zag a little then i wouldnt worry.it is often the case that your first bought of 10's is actually lower than your 15 rep max.it do's happen.
 
ah ok thanks for that!

but what determines success in further cycles??? you are saying it is overall increased poundages. is it the increased range (like ridgely states), or increased strength in the next cycle (increasing every increment poundage)???

eg. FIRST approach= increased range would be:
1st CYCLE
starting weight- 27.5kg
end weight (ie end of 5s)- 56kg

2nd CYCLE
starting weight- 27.5kg
end weight (ie end of 5s)- 62.5kg

SECOND approach= increase every poundage would be:
1st CYCLE
starting weight- 27.5kg
end weight (ie end of 5s)- 56kg

2nd CYCLE
starting weight- 30kg
end weight (ie end of 5s)- 62.5kg

so, i'm posing this question to everyone (because the faq doesn't explain it thoroughly enough to me), which approach does everyone use, increasing range between starting and ending weights? or increasing every poundage increment 5-10 pounds or accordingly to how far you've increased your RMs??? i think this is worth discussing, cos i'm sure (well, i HOPE lol) i'm not the only one who is confused by this.

thanks heaps!
 
<div>
(_Simon_ @ Jul. 21 2007,10:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">ah ok thanks for that!

but what determines success in further cycles??? you are saying it is overall increased poundages. is it the increased range (like ridgely states), or increased strength in the next cycle (increasing every increment poundage)???

eg. FIRST approach= increased range would be:
1st CYCLE
starting weight- 27.5kg
end weight (ie end of 5s)- 56kg

2nd CYCLE
starting weight- 27.5kg
end weight (ie end of 5s)- 62.5kg

SECOND approach= increase every poundage would be:
1st CYCLE
starting weight- 27.5kg
end weight (ie end of 5s)- 56kg

2nd CYCLE
starting weight- 30kg
end weight (ie end of 5s)- 62.5kg

so, i'm posing this question to everyone (because the faq doesn't explain it thoroughly enough to me), which approach does everyone use, increasing range between starting and ending weights? or increasing every poundage increment 5-10 pounds or accordingly to how far you've increased your RMs??? i think this is worth discussing, cos i'm sure (well, i HOPE lol) i'm not the only one who is confused by this.

thanks heaps!</div>
sorry i edited my post i read the question wrong.

but here goes:

1st CYCLE
starting weight- 27.5kg
end weight (ie end of 5s)- 56kg

2nd CYCLE
starting weight- 30kg
end weight (ie end of 5s)- 62.5kg

if you look at your second example you have increased the starting weight because your rep max has increased by 6.5kg's.so i think thats the one to go with.

although the numbers cannot be exact you want aim towards adding some weight to each session.
 
Also, if for some reason you cannot get 15 reps from your new 15RM, thats ok. Do as many as you can. Hopefully its at least close to 15.
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ahhhh ok yeah, so you recommend increasing every poundage/increment instead of increasing the range from cycle to cycle? so then i guess i could at first increase the 15RM, 10RM, and 5RM by about 5kg or so and THEN figure out the increments afterwoods...

i've just read that the effectiveness of a cycle is done through increasing the range... but then again i'm not sure if charles ridgely knows everything about HST (no offense to him!). i'll post the quote and link: <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Broadly speaking, a good measure of the effectiveness of your cycle is the difference between your final, 5RM weight and your beginning weight in the 15s.

The larger the difference, the more effective your cycle will be. You can improve the effectiveness of your cycle by either increasing your 5RM weight or decreasing your beginning weight in the 15s. Although the latter seems like the easier of the two options, you may still be wondering: How low is too low? </div>

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ridgely6.htm

then agaaain... it does make sense to increase ALL the weights because it is eliciting further stress/tension/intensity or whatever on the muscles hey...

thanks for your help guys! i wanna hear a ridgely apprentice's view lol
 
to be honest im not a expert on hst either and there are poeple on here that would be able to advise you.but i just go with what works for me.

we will use the 15's for an example here,lets say you do this

first cycle

first training session

bench 20kg
session 2
bench 23kg
session 3
bench 26kg
skipping ahead your 6th session would be
bench 35kg(your 15 rep max)

so for your second cycle you could start at 23kg(3kgs heavier than your first cycle).and your rep max would be 38kgs if you follow.

most people will tell you that increasing the load each session is the best way.
 
hst is just a guide and set of principles for you to follow,as you advance further there will come a time when you will need to change or tweek your routine in order to optimise it for growth,and there are plenty of articles on how to acheive this,good luck.
 
Range is a result of increment chosen , someone choosing increments of 5 lbs. will (all things being equal) make strength&gt;hypertrophy gains over the course of the resulting range in comparison to another guy using 10 lb. increments whose resulting range will be greater and should find himself experiencing hypertrophy&gt;strength gains in comparison to the first guy.
Common sense must be followed as: if yet another lifter got caught up in range and decided to use 50 lb. increments he would effectively increase range but at the expense of making all but the last two w/o's in each rep range an exersize in futility and time wasting thereby short circuiting any result (beyond perhaps maintainence) for his entire cycle.
I personally like increments of 8 lbs. for all but deads, most use between 5-10 - I think weights available dictates that for most home lifters.

You can't go wrong using increments of 5-10lbs. and the &quot;range&quot; will take care of itself.IMHO of course.
smile.gif
 
Don't sweat the small things.

Start at about 70% of your given rep range and work your way up. Larger increments have been shown to provide more hypertrophy. The load does not have to increase every day; you could progress every other day like this:

45 45 55 55 62.5 62.5
 
AH ok yeah thanks heaps guys!!!

i realise the basics about increments, but i'm talking about the range between the starting and end weight (ie the starting weight in the 15s and the end weight in the 5s). whether an increased RANGE is more important, or whether just increasing every single lift (so then the range stays the same eg. 15-30, increase for second cycle= 20-35. like lcars said before)

thanks, i hope i'm making sense... lol

oh and colby2152, do you mean start at 70% of your 5RM for your absolute starting weight??? or 70% of your rep max for that rep range ie at the start of the rep ranges 70% of your 15RM, 10RM, and 5RM???

thanks everyone! really appreciate it
biggrin.gif
 
Colby meant around 70% of the RM you are working up to.

I tend to go with 75% to 100% of RM for each mesocycle, incrementing in steps of 5%. It's not always possible to do this with the weights I have so I may repeat loads or just go as close as possible.

Here's what happens when you use %ages:

Say your 10RM for squats improved from 100lbs to 200lbs over several cycles then:

@ 100lbs: 75% of RM -&gt; 75lbs starting load, giving a 25lbs range for the mesocycle

@ 200lbs: 75% -&gt; 150lbs starting load, giving a 50lbs range for the mesocycle

Note that the starting load always increases but not at the same rate as the RM load. Thus, the range is always increasing as the top load increases. This will apply over the whole cycle in exactly the same way, even if your cycle includes some zig-zagging.

This is just one way to set up a cycle so that the loads and range are always increasing.

It's quite a good idea to start your cycle with a load that is around 50% of your 5RM (which is around 45% of your 1RM). Some folks start heavier if they don't have any zig-zag but for me that works out quite well. If you take 75% of your 15RM for an exercise and it comes in lower than 50% of your 5RM then I would start with the higher of the two and then increment up to your 15RM however you fancy (repeating loads for a few workouts is fine).
 
<div>
(lcars @ Jul. 22 2007,18:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">jesus lol,you make us look like amateurs
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</div>
Oh yeah baby! I always get all techie after watching a good F1 race.
biggrin.gif
 
oh wow, thanks heaps lol, you're my hero! ;)

cos YES that way the the loads are increasing AND the range, i never thought of that...

ah ok and is the reason you start with 75% of that mesocycle's RM because it can easily increase in 5% increments??? very cool haha!

thanks again!
biggrin.gif
 
Oh Yeah

And to nudge you a little further here's a sample workout, just type in your 1 RM at the last column, just outside the worksheet and Bob's your uncle.
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It may look extensive but adjust as you will, take away, add, whatever blows your hair.
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