Stringing out the cycle

M

mostlyallan

New Member
Ok, so I'm on my 5th week after doing 2 weeks of 10s and (doing the math) 3 weeks of 5s.

I've gone up about 2kgs, about .5 inch on the arms, almost an inch on the chest (dumped bench for dips - seems to be working out fine) and up around .5 on the other measurments.

I've been doing negs where possible but just repping out the same maxes elsewhere until I feel I can jack up the weight (like I did with MP yesterday).

Would you guys advise to just keep going until the end of the month the same way if I'm still gaining? I dont feel drained or anything and feel like I could just keep going.

Neebone
 
If you're gaining and your joints aren't sore, no need to stop now. I have gone as long as 6 weeks with the 5's.
 
That you had to tell him not to stop is part of the inherent flaw of HST - frequent SD. Perhaps the need to "decondition" the muscles is warranted (perhaps, I still haven't totally agreed to it), but not doing it every 8 weeks. That's just plain silly. Do it once or twice a year, fine. If you do it every 6-8 weeks, you are just being a wuss.

-The Real Deal
 
Cheers guys. I wasn't too sure about the muscle adjusting to the weight during the 5s over a few more weeks as I'm not able to do negs on like MP and squats. Maybe I could of just SD'ed and started a new cycle but I didnt really want to as yet
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I guess as long as I'm making SOME adjustment in weight (ie the strength gains are coming) then its ok.

RD - why is an SD every 8 weeks silly?
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">RD - why is an SD every 8 weeks silly?</div>
Thanks for asking. I expected that, like most HST guys, you would just call me an idiot.

Here's why it's silly:
1.) Taking 2 weeks off after every 8 weeks is equal to 10.4 weeks off every year. That's more than 2 months not lifting iron at all.
2.) Did you know that for a weight to be totally ineffective, it can take from several weeks to as much as a few months? That depends on your conditioning and the weight you are moving. If you are near or at your max (which you should most often be in), then it will take a long time, counting months.

From those two points, you should be able to see that frequent SD is harmful to your gains. So yes, what you are doing now is correct, don't stop your lifting just because HST scheduled you to stop. Go ahead and continue it, adjust your max as a little strength comes in.

-The Real Deal
 
RD, have you even read the HST articles at all? It seems like you are just looking at the default 'one size fits all' routine that Bryan made up as an EXAMPLE and basing all your ideas on that.
Maybe you should read the article. Bryan has always advocated keeping the cycle going as long as you can keep increasing the load, and only taking an SD once growth has stalled.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
4) Strategic Deconditioning
At this point, it is necessary to either increase the load (Progressive load), or decrease the degree of conditioning to the load (Strategic Deconditioning). The muscle is sensitive not only to the absolute load, but also to the change in load (up or down). Therefore, you can get a hypertrophic effect from increasing the load from a previous load, even if the absolute load is not maximum, assuming conditioning (resistance to exercise induced micro-damage) is not to extensive. There is a limit to the number of increments you can add to increase the load. You simply reach your maximum voluntary strength eventually. This is why Strategic Deconditioning is required for continued growth once growth has stopped (all things remaining equal).
</div>


Do you get it now? Personally, I don't SD very often at all. I don't think many others here actually SD every 8 weeks as you seem to think.
Do a little reading, maybe you'll understand what you are talking about after that.
 
RD: I am on my fourth cycle and, so far, I have only SDed when my joints started to hurt. After reading the HST FAQ ebook I understood that you don't need to SD if you are still making gains at the end of the post-5s and your body is still feeling OK. At the ripe old age of 41 I do, perhaps, start to hurt sooner than younger folks.

For the first cycle, an SD after 8 weeks is probably a good idea, especially if you are not used to training with low reps. I was not used to using rep schemes of 5 and below as I had always used around 8-12 reps for most exercises before HST. The increased loads gave me lots of joint soreness that first cycle but now my body is getting used to it. My joints stay happy for longer and I am therefore able to keep the cycle going for longer.

I've only ever taken a week off (9 days) for SD and found it to be a great way to keep enthusiasm for training high plus it allows any niggling joint pains a chance to heal a bit before 15s. I reckon I will have around 4 SDs a year which will be 4 weeks away from training or only 12 training sessions missed in that time.

Anyway, I suspect very few people train the whole year without any time off, whatever exercise regime they undertake. The gym helps me live. I don't live for the gym.

Calling SD silly is just that - silly!
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Thanks for asking. I expected that, like most HST guys, you would just call me an idiot.</div>

I asked a simple question. I didnt make a statement implying idiocy.
 
I think there is a problem with SD, as presented in a lot of the HST material. It seems to be a mandatory thing every 8 weeks, and clearly, it is not. SD is a way to break through a plateau, and start over, at lighter weights. As long as size is progressing, and strength training is not a big priority, then don't SD!!

Personally, I plan on doing the Madcow 5x5 training after my current cycle. No need to SD, as my body will be in a pretty well fired up, anabolic state, and the Madcow training emphasizes frequency and pregression... I expect to continue with hypertrophy, even though strength will be my new emphasis.

BTW, after 4 weeks, the tape measure is showing some nice gains already!!
 
Just about everyone has said it before me, but I 'll repeat it.

No need to SD (after 6, 8 or whatever number of weeks) if you are still gaining and your joints are healthy.

This is also what Bryan recommends.
 
SD after 8 weeks is only necessary for &quot;us&quot; aging weaklings
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specially when the joints tell you so.
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BUt a good read is in order, you will eventually see that HST is not a set of rules but guidelines, and as far as we all are concerned it has been chanlenged by monay if not by all of us, at least the better informed crowd or...sorry... the NERDS...and the ones who advocate girlie girl workouts.

By the way HST is good for girls too is it is hypertrophy they are interested in...
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Fausto - yeh I think I will. The reason I asked the initial question was because of the lack of progressive load at this stage in the cycle (lack of negs). If i started a new cycle then I could keep up the gains (minus the SD time of course). However, I wasnt sure whether it was worth continuing this one as I know I'd make gains - but wasnt sure if those gains would be as good as if I'd just started a new cycle.

I guess I'll just stop when I see a slow down in reaching new maxes.
 
No one can make a broad general statement as to how long to lift without taking a break (called Strategic Deconditioning on this site). It depends on many factors including age, testosterone levels, training age, condition of joints and connective tissues, etc. etc. To make a statement that one should not SD at the end of 8 weeks is as wrong as saying that one should SD at the end of 8 weeks. Personally, because I am so freaking old, I like to take a week SD at the end of evry 4 week cycles. It's as healthy for my psyche as it is for my joints and allowing my muscles to regroup. If I were 25 years old, I would guess that I would probably only SD 4 or 5 weeks per year. However, in either case, I wouldn't be an arrogant little pissant about it.
 
&quot;When to SD&quot; is so old a topic, Real Deal doesn't get it only because he doesn't want to get it or he doesn't bother to read HST in detail.

SD when you hit a plateau.
- OR -
SD when you feel like your joints are on fire.

If you feel you need a break, like O&amp;G said, because of reasons like you can't continue with so much heavy lifting due to age or medical reasons, then sure, take a break. If it's warranted, then SD.

If that means you SD every 6, 8, 12,14 or 20 weeks, then go ahead.
 
Hey all here's my .02 on this issue.  

I hurt my groin doing squats when I extended my 5's beyond what I had planned at the start of my cycle.  IMO - HST works so well that you have to be a little careful when you start pushing heavy weights in the 5's and beyond.  HST works!! and you will get stronger, thicker, bigger and want to continue BUT - just be careful - stretch a little longer and maybe do some light walking/cycling/etc before hitting your workout to make sure you are properly warmed up.  IMO the progression that you realize from HST really gets you pumped up and you will want to continue attacking but do so with your health in mind.  It really sucked for me when I hurt myself and looked back at what I did and was mad that I was squating with such heavy weights (at least for me).  Afterwards, I felt like I should have known better.  I am starting another HST cycle this Monday and will continue with squats but am going to monitor the weights/reps more closely once I get to the 5's and beyond/  GOOD LUCK and make sure you stretch and warm up!!
 
Hey all here's my .02 on this issue.

I hurt my groin doing squats when I extended my 5's beyond what I had planned at the start of my cycle. IMO - HST works so well that you have to be a little careful when you start pushing heavy weights in the 5's and beyond. HST works!! and you will get stronger, thicker, bigger and want to continue BUT - just be careful - stretch a little longer and maybe do some light walking/cycling/etc before hitting your workout to make sure you are properly warmed up. IMO the progression that you realize from HST really gets you pumped up and mentally focused so you will want to continue attacking but do so with your health in mind. It really sucked for me when I hurt myself and looked back at what I did and was mad that I was squating with such heavy weights (at least for me). Afterwards, I felt like I should have known better. I am starting another HST cycle this Monday and will continue with squats but am going to monitor the weights/reps more closely once I get to the 5's and beyond/ GOOD LUCK and make sure you stretch and warm up!!
 
Hey all here's my .02 on this issue.

I hurt my groin doing squats when I extended my 5's beyond what I had planned at the start of my cycle. IMO - HST works so well that you have to be a little careful when you start pushing heavy weights in the 5's and beyond. HST works!! and you will get stronger, thicker, bigger and want to continue BUT - just be careful - stretch a little longer and maybe do some light walking/cycling/etc before hitting your workout to make sure you are properly warmed up. IMO the progression that you realize from HST really gets you pumped up and mentally focused so you will want to continue attacking but do so with your health in mind. It really sucked for me when I hurt myself and looked back at what I did and was mad that I was squating with such heavy weights (at least for me). Afterwards, I felt like I should have known better. I am starting another HST cycle this Monday and will continue with squats but am going to monitor the weights/reps more closely once I get to the 5's and beyond/ GOOD LUCK and make sure you stretch and warm up!!
 
Hey all here's my .02 on this issue.

I hurt my groin doing squats when I extended my 5's beyond what I had planned at the start of my cycle. IMO - HST works so well that you have to be a little careful when you start pushing heavy weights in the 5's and beyond. HST works!! and you will get stronger, thicker, bigger and want to continue BUT - just be careful - stretch a little longer and maybe do some light walking/cycling/etc before hitting your workout to make sure you are properly warmed up. IMO the progression that you realize from HST really gets you pumped up and mentally focused so you will want to continue attacking but do so with your health in mind. It really sucked for me when I hurt myself and looked back at what I did and was mad that I was squating with such heavy weights (at least for me). Afterwards, I felt like I should have known better. I am starting another HST cycle this Monday and will continue with squats but am going to monitor the weights/reps more closely once I get to the 5's and beyond/ GOOD LUCK and make sure you stretch and warm up!!
 
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