Testosterone (calculations)

[Lars]

Hey, all!

I finally got a script for testosterone for my "less than optimal" levels and just wanted to know if one of the pros in here could tell me what I can expect from it (in terms of levels and such).

The script is for something called Primoteston Depot (testosterone enantate). 1ml (1 vial) equals 250mg testosterone enantate which should be roughly 180mg testosterone according to the booklet. It's an oily solution for intramuscular use, and injections should be taken every three weeks.

I'd love to hear if someone has something

Cheers!

 

[Blade]

Every 3 weeks is a common HRT frequency - unfortunately it is not the optimal with the enanthate ester. The half-life is roughly 5 days, so most of the injection will be gone by 10-15 days. Every 2 weeks would be better, and every week even more so. In the case of an AAS cycle, every 3. day...

In terms of levels, you'd be in the high-normal range for the first week - then drop into the hypogonadal range until the next injection. Ask your doctor to get a free and total T test 2-2.5 weeks after the injection - that will probably clarify a few things for him...

 

[Blade]

Bhasin et al., Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men., Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2001 Dec;281(6):E1172-81

From the abstract:
"...61 eugonadal men, 18-35 yr, were randomized to one of five groups to receive monthly injections of a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist, to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion, and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk...The administration of the GnRH agonist plus graded doses of testosterone resulted in mean nadir testosterone concentrations of 253, 306, 542, 1,345, and 2,370 ng/dl at the 25-, 50-, 125-, 300-, and 600-mg doses, respectively.Fat-free mass increased dose dependently in men receiving 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone weekly (change +3.4, 5.2, and 7.9 kg, respectively)..."

Note that a GnRH agonist was administered to suppress endogenous T levels, but the levels should correlate with the effects after long-term administration without this agonist as well. You can clearly see that enanthate at 125mg/week seems to be the better dosage, and brings levels to the high-normal range.

 

[Lars]

Thanks, Blade!

I'll discuss it with him after the initial 9 weeks (got a script for 26 weeks of 250mg/3weeks to start with).

How fast do you think natural production will up-regulate again ? Is there any chance of it picking up, thereby helping the total test to stay high-normal - normal the whole period ?

I guess I will have to see how things go these first 9 weeks and then discuss the possibility of getting half the dosage every week if I get bad swings - but the quacks down here charge an arm and a leg to inject, so that's another barrier for me.

Thanks for the reply

Cheers!

 

[Camelia]

Quote[/b] (Lars @ Jan. 03 2003,10:42)]

Quote[/b] ]but the quacks down here charge an arm and a leg to inject, so that's another barrier for me.

Are you an Aussie Lars?

Why don't you just ask your doc for some syringes and do it yourself.

I know the Aussie Primo test comes preloaded in syringes so you don't even have to ask, just put it in your leg.

 

[Lars]

Camelia,

I'm in aussie, but not *an* aussie, and you're right about the syringes being preloaded.

My problem here is that I don't really want to risk doing deep muscle injections without having adrenaline close by in case I hit a blood vessel. I've injected my own allergy medication for years, but I'm a bit more of a pussy when it comes to this stuff

 

[Camelia]

Nahh I don't think you can go wrong injecting it into the lateral portion of your quad. I used to inject one of my hubby's friends because he couldn't conjure up the nerve and really, it's a piece of cake. There are pics on certain websites showing where to inject and it's easy, trust me.

 

[Coyote]

Quote[/b] ]How fast do you think natural production will up-regulate again

never

if you want your natural production to up-regulate again get clomid or Tribulis or HCG injections

I felt like hell the second week of 200MG every 2 weeks
my doc and I have me titrated wiht frequent blood work up to 300 MG a week, now I feel "normal" like I did in my 20's
yours is a very conservative dose

 

[Blade]

"Never" is a pretty strong statement. It really depends, although I do expect recovery to be faster with HCG (if testicular atrophy has occured) and/or anti-estrogens to reduce negative feedback.

And tribulus doesn't have much scientific support except for the bulgarian studies done by the company that sold Tribestane. Anecdotal reports are mixed, as well.

 

[Lars]

Well, here's a little update on day 6;
- This morning my psoriasis is starting to come back
- I started getting back the feeling of having something stuck in the back of my throat (caughing to try to get it loose)
- Started to get more irritated again

Other things I've noticed is that people found me more relaxed and laid back, semen volume decreased (as it should if I'm not mistaken), general feeling of weel-being increased, the way muscles worked changed (I felt I managed to use my primary movers better without using my stabilizers as much and weight increased 15-25%) etc etc

I'll start off by at least asking the doc for bi-weekly injections, but I wouldn't be surprised if I need weekly ones at least in order to keep the psoriasis in check. With the price of the test, and my recent discovery that the school nurse will inject for free, I'm not really worried. The only thing that worried me was the decrease in erections - is this normal ? I didn't have any problems getting it up if I wanted, but involuntary erections (e.g. in the morning) were almost non-existent.

Thanks!