To alternate or not to alternate?

[Rovi]

I posted this question in another thread, but it got very little attention, so I'll have a go at it with my own topic.

I'll try to be as clear as I can, because I know tend to throw a lot of words out there, when the same could have been said in 200% less words. <-- Perfect example... Anywaaaay... on to the meat of the topic.


I'll just present you with an example.
Currently, I'm doing regualr curls and preacher curls, alternating between the two, workout to workout. It looks like this:

Workout 1: 3 sets regular curls
W2: 3 sets preacher curls
W3: 3 sets regular
.
.
W6: 3 sets preacher

Weekly total: 3 exercise bouts for each exercise with 9 sets regular and 9 sets preacher


Now, I was thinking it might be better to do it this way:

W1: 2 sets reg, 1 set preacher
W2: 1 set reg, 2 sets preacher
.
.
.
W6: 1 set reg, 2 sets preacher

Weekly total: 6 exercise bouts for each exercise, 9 sets each

The volume has been kept the same, but frequency was doubled. Now I understand that whatever muscles are more emphasized in the preacher curl (ie. brachials) also get exercised during a regular curl (just not with the same emphasis?), so you could argue that even with alternating, you get 6 exercise bouts.

I'd really like some thoughts on this from everyone. Not really looking for "Oh you'll be fine with alternating."

 

[OneMoreRep]

In my personal opinion, i think if the volume stays the same over the week thier should be no real difference.
BUT,

If i have 2 exercises for one bodypart i tend to like to spread it out and do less volume of each exercise each workout and increase the frequency.

For example...If i did both chins and BB rows for back, say 2 sets for each... i'd do ONE set of each, for each workout.

i just like the idea of keeping each workouts the same. And some exercises i just really like to do as often as possible. If that makes an sense.

Let me break it down;

Instead of;

Workout 1
Chins - 4 sets
Workout 2
BB rows - 4 sets

I'd prefer to do ONE set of each and do;

Workout 1
Chins - 2 sets
BB rows - 2 sets

Workout 2
Chins - 2 sets
BB rows - 2 sets

All in all i see no difference in the long run, but it feels better for me to do the second one So that's what i'd do.

 

[Rovi]

Yeah that's what I think is better as well.
Only difference is, I believe it should make a difference
Hopefully people will share what they know/think.
Otherwise I'll just have to go the long way and find out for myself.  

 

[jvroig]

Heya, Rovi

Well, alternating exercises are ok.

Quote[/b] ]Not really looking for "Oh you'll be fine with alternating."

Oh, yeah... ok then, let's go be a bit more clear. (Hehehe, sorry, couldn't resist including that one for a little comic relief of sorts! )

Well, first thing I noticed is that your example is for isolation exercises for the arm. Well, in that example (preacher and regular curls), I believe making use of both exercise at any one workout session is pretty useless, and you could do with just picking one.

Arm growth doesn't really depend heavily on isolation. One expert (was it O&G? I forgot, but there were so many and they all said the same thing really) even went so far as to say you can do all the isolation in the world and not see any gains. Arm size will grow chiefly because of the heavy compounds. Of course, I'm not saying drop your isolation. But you can give it a rest. Just do 1 exercise for isolation, and worry more about the core lifts.

What about alternating exercises for core lifts/heavy compounds? For example, is it better to have 4 sets of incline bench on workout1, then 4 sets of flys on workout2?

Well, it is better to do both at one workout with less sets, i.e., 2 sets of incline and 2 sets of flys each workout. After all, the basic recommendation is something like one exercise for small muscle groups and 2 exercises for major muscle groups. And anyway, 4 sets of one exercise should rarely, if ever, be done, except when you're clustering. 1 or 2 nice sets (that is, adequate weight, form and tempo) will give you as much hypertrophy as possible, and adding more really won't give any significant benefits, and would only burn even more calories, make you more fatigued, present a greater probability of getting CNS fatigue early on, and generally make you less able to train more frequently.

Well, I guess that's it, and I just hope that helps!
- JV

 

[Rovi]

Quote[/b] ]Well, alternating exercises are ok.

*shakes fist*

Quote[/b] ]Arm growth doesn't really depend heavily on isolation.

Ah of course of course. It was merely an example. Like you said, this applies to things such as chest dips/incline bench, wide/narrow chins etc...

Thanks for your thoughts, I agree with just about all of it.

 

[Old and Grey]

I prefer alternating. Certain studies seem to indicate that multiple sets of the same exercise have quite a steep diminishing returns curve. Therefore, my rather simplistic, and not all together perfect solution, is to alternate instead of repeat and hit the muscles from different angles. That appears to be a tad more efficient than multiple sets. However, I think the real answer is to use alternating exercises with very high frequency. That way you can avoid the diminishing return problem most efficiently.

 

[jvroig]

(Since we're on the topic of alternating...)
I also think it keeps the workout a little more exciting to change a few exercises every cycle or two.

You don't have to change your exercises, and you can just stick with them cycle after cycle, but it's also kinda fun to switch exercises. I do that to expose myself to other effective exercises, since I limit the number of exercises I do (I pretty much stick to core lifts, and add only a few more exercises). And down the road I also figured out and experienced firsthand which exercises "seemed" to be more suited for myself, which ones felt better for me, and which exercises "seemed" to get more results. (The quotes simply mean they are not scientific facts but merely personal observations, and are thus subjective, and in no way should be taken as conclusive to any degree whatsoever)

If you've already finished a few HST cycles and are confident enough about tweaking your routine a little, try changing some exercises every cycle, and you might be surprised with what you discover!

Regards!
- JV

 

[Rovi]

Experience wise, I'm quite new to HST (finishing my first cycle this week). Though I've read up quite a bit, and seem to - at least I think - grasp most concepts.

I'm sticking with fairly basic exercises as well, except for one - leg lifts. I'm trying to get that crotch "V" to really bulge out

I agree alternating makes things more exciting, but I'm in a fired up phase, where I wanna get the most out of everything, sacrificing the fun if need be

 

[jvroig]

Well, you know what they say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

Indeed, if you are still so fired up about HST and are quite happy with the results, no need to vary your exercises. There really is very little need to vary your exercises if you already have a solid routine.

 

[jl3goat]

I don't alternate all the exercises--some I've been alternating within the 2-week cycle only if, say, someone is hogging to squat rack or the smith machine (for military). For bis, tris, and chest, I alternate exercises each workout, not within the workout, as I had been doing previously. So far, this seems to be working well. I completed 15s last week, and my maxes went up on all exercises doing it this way.

That said, I probably would alternate all the exercises had I worked out maxes for a wider range of exercises. When I'm forced to alternate on legs or shoulders I guesstimate.

 

[Rovi]

Seems like I'm an uniformer in a world of alternators

I'll give my way a shot on my third cycle, as the upcoming one is a cutting cycle, and probably not the best one to judge muscle/strength gains on.

Thanks for your thoughts guys!

 

[Captain Crunch]

I alternate almost all of my movements except when I am doing heavy squats or deads. If doing these then I do them at the beginning of my routine and I take extra recovery time between so as not to injure myself because body position is very critical. I don't like to tire myself with some other exercise in between. Everything else gets supersetted to keep the pace of the workout high.

Mike

 

[jvroig]

Quote[/b] ]Seems like I'm an uniformer in a world of alternators

Yes, actually Rovi, you are the only person doing HST who doesn't alternate. Just kidding!

Alternating the exercises, other than added motivation to train because it keeps you more hyped up ("Dude, I have a great new exercise this cycle, it rocks!&quot and excited about working out, really doesn't have that much significant benefit. Long ago, vets like Arnold would say "hit the muscles hard and confuse them by changing your exercises every now and then" (if you've read the 1980's edition of his "Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding, you'd know what I'm saying), but today we know that it's just bunk. The muscles don't really care what exercise you do, as long as the exercise you do hits them well. So if you have a solid line-up of exercises already, and you don't feel bored, well... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

It's just that, down the road, perhaps after a few more cycles, you'll get the sudden feeling of "Oh my gosh darn white rabbits and all that, I want to change my exercises!" No, I'm kidding, that would be what a conservative 60-year old lady would say.

You'll get the feeling of tediousness or boredom, and an effective way to keep at it is to vary the routine a bit by changing an exercise so you get that "Dude, I have this new exercise, and it kicks butt!".

 

[Fausto]

Rovi

Ah, men's ego...and the ever frustating fight of subduing it

Worry not dear friend, the jvroig is right

Quote[/b] ]"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

Look on the bright side, you are getting growth? Good, thenwhat else would you like, that is the speed at which this thing operates "no matter how you press the pedal".

I believe alternating is good, between workouts. More or different exercises?

Well, try the 45 or 60 degree incline curls, not good enough?

Let them hang for 45 - 60 seconds, ah... that feels better, works too I promise! But don't overdo it.

You have just arrived, the race is still fresh, and your grid position is pretty good - I'd say Hang in There

 

[Totentanz]

I don't alternate. I can see why people would do it, but I prefer routine. I'm like Leonard Shelby in that respect. Habit and routine make my life possible.

I use almost the same routine every HST cycle, in fact, though occasionally I may add in or subtract an exercise or two. Since we SD, I think it is perfectly acceptable.

So... alternate if you want to, or feel like you need to.

 

[Rovi]

Quote[/b] ]Yes, actually Rovi, you are the only person doing HST who doesn't alternate.

I know... I feel so.... alone...
You're right, I probably will get bored. I plan on trying out more strength specific training (BLASPHEMY&#33 once I'm pleased with my physique anyway, which should be relatively soon. My goal isn't to get as large as I possibly can, which is kind of contra to what this thread's all about

Quote[/b] ]Look on the bright side, you are getting growth? Good, thenwhat else would you like

Fausto... I want more growth... more... more... MOREEEEE! AAAHAHAHAHA! whoa... sorry about that... *composes self*

Yeah, that dang ego... I shall be patient. *bow*

Like I said, I'm going to not alternate for a cycle or two and see how that goes.

Totentanz, looks like I'm not alone after all