Training Density

[Actarus]

Hello I would like to know what's the role of density in hypertrophy stimulation.
With High Density, the fatigue of nervous system and muscular system would be higher but maybe it has also some positive effects on hypertrophy. ...Growth Hormone production ? TESTOSTERONE ?
I don't see how something oriented toward endurance (high density) could have a positive impact on hypertrophy (something oriented toward strength, the strength of a muscle beeing proportional to its cross section).
I know Bryan said it has an effect on muscle quality rather than size (or only sarcoplasmic hypertrophy). But I read studies about the GH production and higher training density

 

[Actarus]

here's an example :

Quote[/b] ]Moderate Lifting After
Heavy Lifting May
Increase Muscle Size

The authors of this study set out to determine what happens if “hypertrophy” training (moderate intensity, moderate sets) is conducted immediately after “strength” training (high intensity, low reps). The hypothesis was that the total volume of exercise of the combined program would exceed that of the strength program alone, and that the intensity would affect post-exercise lactate and growth hormone responses.

Eight male recreational lifters were tested for this study. The participants did five “strength” sets at up to 90% of their 1 rep maximum, with long rest periods between sets. Thirty seconds after concluding their final “strength” set, they completed one “hypertrophy” set at 50% 1RM

The results suggest that a single set of 50% 1 RM after 5 sets of strength training produces a greater lactate and growth hormone response than another high weight, low rep set. This supports the idea that adding 1 set of high reps to a strength conditioning program may provide an extra boost in lactate and growth hormone levels to help increase size, too.

K. Goto et al., A single set of low intensity resistance exercise immediately following high intensity resistance exercise stimulates growth hormone secretion in men. Journal of Sports Medicine and Physical Fitness 43:243-249, 2003


Low Intensity Sets
Increase Growth Hormone
Concentrations

The same researchers from the previous study also compared the lactate and growth hormone effects of low intensity sets to failure.

What they discovered was that when adding a set of 30 – 50% of the 1RM immediately after a series of sets of near-maximal lifts, the result was an increase in growth hormone levels and hypertrophy. The take-home message: If you are considering adding a submaximal set to a sequence of heavy sets in order to increase size while increasing strength, use loads higher than 30% and lower than 70% of 1-RM.

K. Goto et al., Growth hormone response to training regimen with combined high- and low-intensity resistance exercise. International Journal of Sport and Health Science 2:111-118, 2004

 

[Old and Grey]

Aha, the reinvention of the theory behind drop sets. What amazes me is that researchers actually get grants to reprove theory 17 different ways and then label it a "new" advancement so that they can move on to the next grant. They even publish research every year that "proves" that adding a load to a movement (i.e., weight lifting) can actually build muscle. Personally, I'm waiting for the peer eviewed study that concludes that eating will stave off starvation. Until that study comes out I am just going to eat because it *gasp* tastes good.

 

[Actarus]

So if there is a positive effect with drop sets (or high reps sets in general) it might be interessant to know if it worth the fatigue of nervous system and depletion of energy and thus the reduction in training volume and frequency.

 

[Old and Grey]

Actarus, I don't think one can give you a specific answer on that. It depends on where you at that point in your training, recoverability, joint and connective tissue conditions, etc. The closest generalization I would feel safe making is that drop sets would not be ideal for relative new lifters. Their time would be better spent with basic, heavy compound movements. Very advanced lifters would likely benefit from from high intendity sets such as drop sets after completing their low rep, high weight workouts. Anybody who falls in between those parameters really needs to experiment to see if they would be beneficial to themselves. My advice would be to try it and report your findings back to us. Remember that the purpose is to provide a lactate and metabolic response. You will know when you achieve that as you will want to fall down to your knees and wimper like a puppy.

Ah yes, it hurts sooooo good!

 

[Actarus]

I'm not convinced by light drop sets for growth (except sarcoplasmic growth, energy storage).

But what I would really know is that :

Let's say I do only one exercise and I have two option :

1) 5 sets of 8 reps with my 12RM with 2 min between sets.

2) 10 sets of 4 reps with my 6RM and 10 min between sets.

Volume is the same but INTENSITY and DENSITY aren't the same. Is it better to have a lighter weights with higher density or an heavier weight with lower density ?

I know HSTers would say something like that :

You have a higher mechanical work in the option 2) and it's has a higher impact on muscles stimulation than a high metabolic work (option 1).

BUT what about HORMONAL stimulation ? Wouldn't the Higher Density training increase GH and Testosterone MORE than the Low Density Training and thus the High Density / Low Intensity training would lead to better or egal growth ?

thanks

 

[Jester]

As nice as it is to have big muscles and all, are you sure you actually want extra GH going around your system? It has a basal level for a reason......assuming that the style above does increase hormone levels.

 

[Old and Grey]

I should clarify one thing. I only recommend drop sets for one or possibly two final week usinf your 5 RM's before SDing. Drops are too demanding to do all the time.

If you plan all your workouts based on hormonal stimulation through high intensity training, the only thing that will likely happen is that you will reach RBE very quickly and not grow anymore. High intensity training is just one more tool to use in your overall training. It is not meant to be used all the time any more than training to failure should be used all the time.

 

[imported_dkm1987]

Quote[/b] (Actarus @ Mar. 14 2005,8:19)]I know HSTers would say something like that :
You have a higher mechanical work in the option 2) and it's has a higher impact on muscles stimulation than a high metabolic work (option 1).

I'll go for that

Ok hormones, yes they have been shown to increase with concentric reps more than eccentric, yes they have shown that GH increases with working out, and even endurance training. But neither raise to a level that would compare to say supraphysiological doses of AAS, so to the extent that there are some astronomical gains by inducing more hormones, not true. There may be an overall chronically induced benefit but the acute response probably wouldn't make a whole lot of difference. Also even though you are inducing some of the anabolic hormones by working out remember you are also raising some catabolic also.

So again I go for option 2. Keep fatique in control and add more mechanical tension to the tissue. JMHO.

 

[vicious]

The lactic acid=GH connection is the basis for Poliquin's German Body Composition programs. GBC works pretty well for losing fat. Then again, you also lose a little bit of your soul when you're doing four 90-second sets of squats, deads, and chins done circuit-style.

As dkm says, the overall effect of acute GH response from hypertrophy is going to be kinda iffy. To make it worth your while, you'll need to train into the 2+ hour time, or do in excess of 10 sets for a bodypart. If you eat carbs during the workout or eat carbs after your workout, there goes the GH. It's somewhat self-defeating to evaluate exercise protocols by their acute autocrine and paracrine responses. Although it's true that testosterone levels are elevated after significant exercise, there are dwindling results when prolonging exercise beyond 45-60 minutes. Finally, cortisol is mostly a product of neural drive. Excessive fatiguing and density training work boost mitigates the benefits of GH and testosterone by paintballing your poor muscles with flesh-eating cortisol.

I'm all for light burn sets during 5s and negatives. I think density training is useful for maintaining a level of metabolic work, stimulating glycogen replenishment, increasing glycogen storage capacity, ennervating the energy system and nutrient partioning effect, stimulating erk1/2signal, thus improving overall energy transport system all in the aid of hypertrophy. Lotsa good stuff. Oh, and Hillary Swank did a buncha drop sets and pushed a SUV around a parking lot in order to get into her Million Dollar Baby fighting shape.

But, all the above is still secondary to choosing strategies and techniques that increase mechanical strain. Metabolic work should be treated as a separate part from the rest of your routine, the minority of it.

If you're interested, though, in exploring how to apply forms of density training as well as general metabolic work techniques in order to create a lot of lactic acid and possibly acute GH response, look up the metabolic work section in the Customizing thread. The general list of techniques are also listed from easiest to hardest.

cheers,
Jules

 

[Actarus]

Thank you DKM and Vicious it's what I wanted to hear but after reading some studies about hormonal response and high density training I had a little doubt

It was amazing for me to find that something oriented toward endurance could enhance hypertrophy, hypertrophy beeing related to the strength of the muscle not his endurance.