Twice per week training
- Thread starter Fausto
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imported_etothepii
Guest
I've read that just one full body weight training session per week will maintain current muscle mass (one of Men's Fitness drive-by research reports). I've never tried, so I don't really have an informed opinion which way to go on a two day per week routine. Just thinking though ... we avoid failure in HST, but failure training has it's place (endurance?). Maybe do one failure routine once per week, and one non-failure routine, and see what it does for you.
I couldn't say exactly why, but if I get 2-1/2 days of recovery, I want something to recover from, in part. I would take advantage of the situation to do two separate types of workout, one to failure in a strengthening phase and the other similar, but with more volume, possibly even with less weight. I'd put most iso's on the strength day with the three day break after it.
It's just something I was thinking about last year.
It's just something I was thinking about last year.
Joe.Muscle
Active Member
I agree with Quad.
Maybe one day low volume.
2nd day slightly higher volume if possible.
Maybe one day low volume.
2nd day slightly higher volume if possible.
Assuming you were happy with your previous results, keep your weekly volume the same but do it over two days instead of however many days you used to work out. Load can increase but only as a means to increase the intensity so that you feel you need more recovery time. Concentate on multi-joint exercises. Pre and post workout nutrition will need special attention to maximize results. Supplement with full ROM bodyweight exercises on off days such as pull ups, push ups, one legged squats, etc. if necessary. Keep a positive growth oriented attitude. Remember, two times per week is twice as good as once per week. Keep us posted on your routine, results, etc. You can accomplish more than maintenance!
Style wrote this in the slow reps thread:
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I prefer training every 72 to every 48 for strength recovery reasons (when training with near max loads) When training sub max, I prefer training every 48 hours. I prefer training with max loads to submax though
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I think this is brilliant advice as I enter some CNS stress...by spreading out the workouts another day apart, I'm at 2-1/2 days a week average and can more fearlessly continue pushing myself. I also won't overtrain as quickly and have to SD.
The point here being that one could begin the 2x/wk system as an addendum to a regular cycle, enabling it to be prolonged.-?
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I prefer training every 72 to every 48 for strength recovery reasons (when training with near max loads) When training sub max, I prefer training every 48 hours. I prefer training with max loads to submax though
I think this is brilliant advice as I enter some CNS stress...by spreading out the workouts another day apart, I'm at 2-1/2 days a week average and can more fearlessly continue pushing myself. I also won't overtrain as quickly and have to SD.
The point here being that one could begin the 2x/wk system as an addendum to a regular cycle, enabling it to be prolonged.-?
Long before I knew anything about HST (in fact before I knew anything besides 3 sets of 10 reps), I did a full body workout every 3rd day and did very well with it. That works out to 2x a week.
So why not just do your normal HST plan and go for it. I think it will work. Maybe during the 5's you can throw in an extra set or two on the "real" lifts.
So why not just do your normal HST plan and go for it. I think it will work. Maybe during the 5's you can throw in an extra set or two on the "real" lifts.
Fausto
HST Expert
Thanks guys
I knew I could count on you, there are 100's of experts on this forum, believe me!
I think I am very much inclined to try going to failure once p/week and the other day as normal HST.
The lifts I am not changing much, they are working "just dandy", what I need is to include more cardio on off days, to get my belly down! Darn it I am looking good everywhere but there!
Lifts:
Squats/Deadlifts - alternated
Bench/Dips - alternated
Chins/Bent over rows - alternated
Military Press/Lat. raises + Bent over raises (superset) - also alternated
When I am in the mood I do a superset for arms, it will be whatever "blows my hair" on that particular day
I have done, 21's with E-Z bar, incline curls, standing D/B curls, Zotmans , cable overhead curls....hell you name it, I've done it.
For triceps I mostly do pushdowns, but sometimes feel the need to do laying triceps cable extensions, kinda like a skullcrusher but using a low cable, I most ly do these max-stim style.
In fact many of the exercises are done this way with some exceptions of course, ah...I also use some J-repping here and there!
I knew I could count on you, there are 100's of experts on this forum, believe me!
I think I am very much inclined to try going to failure once p/week and the other day as normal HST.
The lifts I am not changing much, they are working "just dandy", what I need is to include more cardio on off days, to get my belly down! Darn it I am looking good everywhere but there!
Lifts:
Squats/Deadlifts - alternated
Bench/Dips - alternated
Chins/Bent over rows - alternated
Military Press/Lat. raises + Bent over raises (superset) - also alternated
When I am in the mood I do a superset for arms, it will be whatever "blows my hair" on that particular day
For triceps I mostly do pushdowns, but sometimes feel the need to do laying triceps cable extensions, kinda like a skullcrusher but using a low cable, I most ly do these max-stim style.
In fact many of the exercises are done this way with some exceptions of course, ah...I also use some J-repping here and there!
Oh Gawd, dont' start that J-repping argument again!!!
I'd think you're okay with the "whatever variety" approach to your weekly arms work. They don't really care as much about how you do them as how much you do them.
If you start to feel too blasted from the max days, just start stopping short of the failures instead, and you should be able to continue for a long time with this. The point I think, is to have a mix of hypertrophy on one day and strength on the other. I believe Westside does exactly that in a more complicated way (I've only breifly read it) and some others. I'm guessing that in the later part of your cycle though, they tend to equalize: the hypertrophy has progressed into the strength phase in the latter 5's, so you may have to back off something or just do them the same. This is what I was saying about not hitting failure; you don't really want to do that 2x/wk unless you're on juice! (or young enough; same thing)
I'd think you're okay with the "whatever variety" approach to your weekly arms work. They don't really care as much about how you do them as how much you do them.
If you start to feel too blasted from the max days, just start stopping short of the failures instead, and you should be able to continue for a long time with this. The point I think, is to have a mix of hypertrophy on one day and strength on the other. I believe Westside does exactly that in a more complicated way (I've only breifly read it) and some others. I'm guessing that in the later part of your cycle though, they tend to equalize: the hypertrophy has progressed into the strength phase in the latter 5's, so you may have to back off something or just do them the same. This is what I was saying about not hitting failure; you don't really want to do that 2x/wk unless you're on juice! (or young enough; same thing)
My two cents, whatever your three day/week routine was, do it twice a week now.
I might play around with the increments though, as in skip one every other workout, so at the end of a two week block, you still reach the same RM, or start each block with a higher % of RM.
Seems the data provided shows no benefit to a three day/week routine, as compared to two. Maybe there is no need to compensate (add exercises/failure sets) for the missing weekly workout.
As they say, try whatever and see how it works for ya, good luck!!
Seems the data provided shows no benefit to a three day/week routine, as compared to two. Maybe there is no need to compensate (add exercises/failure sets) for the missing weekly workout.
As they say, try whatever and see how it works for ya, good luck!!
Perhaps it's true that you can do just the same for hypertrophy with 2 as with 3 a week. But I have a hard time rationalizing it at least in the case of calories burned and physical conditioning for one reason: in a workout, I may do 10-12 exersizes and move up to 27 tons, or do 4-5 exersizes and move about 17-1/2 tons.
It's a lot of work NOT BEING DONE when skipping a workout.
(American tons, 2000lbs.)
It's a lot of work NOT BEING DONE when skipping a workout.
(American tons, 2000lbs.)
Way I understand HST, its not so much about total work done, as rep can be irrelevant, as its about progressive load, frequency and rest. Maybe?
As at the end of each two week block, you should still have the capacity or ability, to perform the same work, as if you had three workouts a week.
In theory of course.
As at the end of each two week block, you should still have the capacity or ability, to perform the same work, as if you had three workouts a week.
In theory of course.
It's not theory; it's fact. But even with your angle on it, I'm still PROGRESSING one more workout in a week as compared to one less. And I'm resting enough to recuperate the muscles until the end of the fives. Whenever THAT happens.
So therefore, theoretically of course (yeh, right), the extra work is extra progression and therefore I cannot simply accept that I can do one less workout a week and get the same results, no matter what some study said. Simple math.
Oh, and Fausto didn't start on this: I did, just thinking out loud. I understand that Faus has other reasons for doing 2/week.
So therefore, theoretically of course (yeh, right), the extra work is extra progression and therefore I cannot simply accept that I can do one less workout a week and get the same results, no matter what some study said. Simple math.
Oh, and Fausto didn't start on this: I did, just thinking out loud. I understand that Faus has other reasons for doing 2/week.
Fausto
HST Expert
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Oh, and Fausto didn't start on this: I did, just thinking out loud. I understand that Faus has other reasons for doing 2/week.</div>
Never claimed that, and yep I do have other reasons, but I am being a "glutton" and want to squeeze the 5's for all they're worth, I thin like this I'll be able to.
Already very close to my tragets for the negative week which I'll use to my advantage now that I have a partner.
So far the strategy seems to be working.
Will keep you guys posted!
Never claimed that, and yep I do have other reasons, but I am being a "glutton" and want to squeeze the 5's for all they're worth, I thin like this I'll be able to.
Already very close to my tragets for the negative week which I'll use to my advantage now that I have a partner.
So far the strategy seems to be working.
Will keep you guys posted!
<div>
(quadancer @ Feb. 13 2007,22:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It's not theory; it's fact. But even with your angle on it, I'm still PROGRESSING one more workout in a week as compared to one less. And I'm resting enough to recuperate the muscles until the end of the fives. Whenever THAT happens.
So therefore, theoretically of course (yeh, right), the extra work is extra progression and therefore I cannot simply accept that I can do one less workout a week and get the same results, no matter what some study said. Simple math.
Oh, and Fausto didn't start on this: I did, just thinking out loud. I understand that Faus has other reasons for doing 2/week.</div>
I know, Im just trying to understand your thoughts.
If I understand it correctly, your saying that the extra workout per week, equates to more gains ~ despite the fact two per week is optimal, by certain studies of course, studies that demonstrate that there is no benefit to a third workout?
Hey, its a hard concept for me to wrap my thoughts around too but if Im to believe the HST hoop-la and supporting studies, then bring on the headache...haha
later
(quadancer @ Feb. 13 2007,22:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It's not theory; it's fact. But even with your angle on it, I'm still PROGRESSING one more workout in a week as compared to one less. And I'm resting enough to recuperate the muscles until the end of the fives. Whenever THAT happens.
So therefore, theoretically of course (yeh, right), the extra work is extra progression and therefore I cannot simply accept that I can do one less workout a week and get the same results, no matter what some study said. Simple math.
Oh, and Fausto didn't start on this: I did, just thinking out loud. I understand that Faus has other reasons for doing 2/week.</div>
I know, Im just trying to understand your thoughts.
If I understand it correctly, your saying that the extra workout per week, equates to more gains ~ despite the fact two per week is optimal, by certain studies of course, studies that demonstrate that there is no benefit to a third workout?
Hey, its a hard concept for me to wrap my thoughts around too but if Im to believe the HST hoop-la and supporting studies, then bring on the headache...haha
later
Fausto
HST Expert
I am simply going to push the cycle as far as I can.
Where as I may try oncep/week failure training on the last set and HST failure not HIT retard type failure.
so where the weights would be in a cycle 3 x week, now they are 2 x but still broken down into 24 workouts but taking me 12 weeks instead...make sense? Same set up same weight progression, just on faiulure days I may go a bit "nuts", but only if it works
Where as I may try oncep/week failure training on the last set and HST failure not HIT retard type failure.
so where the weights would be in a cycle 3 x week, now they are 2 x but still broken down into 24 workouts but taking me 12 weeks instead...make sense? Same set up same weight progression, just on faiulure days I may go a bit "nuts", but only if it works
Fausto, I didn't realize you were holding to the same progression. I'd like to watch how this one goes, or at least hear you at the end and see if it's done any better.
Need2 - What I'm saying is only that I've had a hard time believing the concept. I'm not saying I'm right; just hardheaded.
Need2 - What I'm saying is only that I've had a hard time believing the concept. I'm not saying I'm right; just hardheaded.