What phase was the best in gains for you?
- Thread starter _Simon_
- Start date
personally i dont think you can tell,i dont think an hst cycle would allow you to run each rep scheme long enough to find out which one you grew the most from.
i mean ok you feel bigger when you hit the 5's but how do you know the growth hasnt crept on from the 10's or 15's.
i often feel great pumps from the high rep ranges,my muscles tend to look fuller,but i know from xp that weight is an important factor so if i had to i would say the 4-8 rep range suits me for growth.
but you must not forget that different muscle fibres respond to different rep ranges,this is why i think its important that we use all rep ranges,high,medium and low.
i mean ok you feel bigger when you hit the 5's but how do you know the growth hasnt crept on from the 10's or 15's.
i often feel great pumps from the high rep ranges,my muscles tend to look fuller,but i know from xp that weight is an important factor so if i had to i would say the 4-8 rep range suits me for growth.
but you must not forget that different muscle fibres respond to different rep ranges,this is why i think its important that we use all rep ranges,high,medium and low.
I
imported_etothepii
Guest
Search the forum. There is an old poll on this topic somewhere.
Don't forget that during the 15s you are starting out with only around 75% of your 15RM which might be your 30RM! Those kind of loads are not going to do much for hypertrophy but they can do a lot for your joint health. Once you get to the end of the 15s you are using loads that can (and will) cause a muscle growing stimulus assuming your SD was effective enough.
If your joints are just fine from the previous cycle then skipping the 15s is OK but I would still do them every other cycle. I actually always do them because my poor old joints need all the help they can get, plus the 15RM w/o is the biggest challenge of the whole cycle for me (esp. if I do deads AND squats for that w/o
).
If your joints are just fine from the previous cycle then skipping the 15s is OK but I would still do them every other cycle. I actually always do them because my poor old joints need all the help they can get, plus the 15RM w/o is the biggest challenge of the whole cycle for me (esp. if I do deads AND squats for that w/o
AH ok yeah thanks for that! then, would it just be ok to do maybe ONE week of 15s? like, say your weight increment had to be doubled anyway (as in repeated over two workouts), i could just do ONE week of 15s and increase the weight EACH workout (if ya get me), here's an example:
say if bench was spread over two weeks for the 15s, it might look like this- 27.5, 27.5, 30, 30, 32.5, 32.5 (kilograms that is lol).
but i could do it over only ONE week like this: 27.5, 30, 32.5
i just didn't really see much benefit in my 15s, so i'm thinkin cos yeah they are good for your joints (although i think my joints are ok atm), but i don't wanna spend TOO long on them yeah?
ALSO, ok, since it's hard to say which phase was better for growth, i'd like to ask which CYCLE produced the best gains? your first? or EVERY other one after that?
thanks!
say if bench was spread over two weeks for the 15s, it might look like this- 27.5, 27.5, 30, 30, 32.5, 32.5 (kilograms that is lol).
but i could do it over only ONE week like this: 27.5, 30, 32.5
i just didn't really see much benefit in my 15s, so i'm thinkin cos yeah they are good for your joints (although i think my joints are ok atm), but i don't wanna spend TOO long on them yeah?
ALSO, ok, since it's hard to say which phase was better for growth, i'd like to ask which CYCLE produced the best gains? your first? or EVERY other one after that?
thanks!
my second cycle produced the most gains as i had fully grasped hst principles by then.
the bigger you get the more your returns begin to diminish especially when you get closer to your natural limit,although there is debate as to wether a limit exists,i think that there comes a point where the body can only hang onto so much muscle.
ok if you dont wanna spend much time on 15's then you could drop a week.i tend to get more benefit from 15's as i dont start much under my rep max,so all weights are almost max lifts.plus im not doing an hst cycle at the moment.
the bigger you get the more your returns begin to diminish especially when you get closer to your natural limit,although there is debate as to wether a limit exists,i think that there comes a point where the body can only hang onto so much muscle.
ok if you dont wanna spend much time on 15's then you could drop a week.i tend to get more benefit from 15's as i dont start much under my rep max,so all weights are almost max lifts.plus im not doing an hst cycle at the moment.
so you guys reckon one week of 15s is ok? or actually, i might just do two weeks ay... i don't know! is the only reason for the 15s mainly for joint/tendon health, or is it because you can start really light and get a big range between them weights and your end weights? not sure whether to skip them or not... just cos i didn't see much growth in the 15s, doesn't mean they didn't cause growth down the track... lol
thanks everyone!
thanks everyone!
Firminator
New Member
15's are optional FOR some - not for me. I absolutely need to do the 15's. I find that they seem to help my joint problems - at age 54 I have a lot of those. Plus I use them to cleanup my form that can get a little loose when stretching out my 5's for 4 or so extra weeks. I've been doing HST workouts for 5 yrs so much of what works or doesn't work for me has been discovered by trial and error.
Good call, Firm. And I'm the same age, a couple of months short.
All this talk of joints and repair; let's not forget mitochondrial growth, and conditioning.
I often think that some of the guys who complain about the 15's haven't really pushed them in the latter workouts. I've seen some very large guys who do a LOT of 15's, not even doing HST exactly, but were cycling and using progression.
All this talk of joints and repair; let's not forget mitochondrial growth, and conditioning.
I often think that some of the guys who complain about the 15's haven't really pushed them in the latter workouts. I've seen some very large guys who do a LOT of 15's, not even doing HST exactly, but were cycling and using progression.
To clarify: I meant that some of these guys complain about the 15's not doing anything for them: but I feel like they're not really hitting their maxes, not starting high enough, and definitely not trying to push that max.
And as you said, they may thereby drop them since they're "no good" for anything.
WRONG!!!
And as you said, they may thereby drop them since they're "no good" for anything.
WRONG!!!
<div>
(quadancer @ Jul. 25 2007,22:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">To clarify: I meant that some of these guys complain about the 15's not doing anything for them: but I feel like they're not really hitting their maxes, not starting high enough, and definitely not trying to push that max.
And as you said, they may thereby drop them since they're "no good" for anything.
WRONG!!!</div>
Agreed!
(quadancer @ Jul. 25 2007,22:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">To clarify: I meant that some of these guys complain about the 15's not doing anything for them: but I feel like they're not really hitting their maxes, not starting high enough, and definitely not trying to push that max.
And as you said, they may thereby drop them since they're "no good" for anything.
WRONG!!!</div>
Agreed!
i know it go's against some of hst's principles but i think it would be a good idea to train 15's to failure or use them for a week at your rep maxs.its just what i do and find it works well,but thats me.
i just get the general consensus that people find thew 15's less productive and "easier" than the lower 10's and 5's.
i just get the general consensus that people find thew 15's less productive and "easier" than the lower 10's and 5's.
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">i just get the general consensus that people find thew 15's less productive and "easier" than the lower 10's and 5's. </div>
hmm yeah but the thing is i guess people would think they aren't 'productive', but the gains won't just come straight away, it's probably worked very well and it shows up when you are in the 10s or 5s as ummm what's the wooord.... consequential effects??? lol
hmm yeah but the thing is i guess people would think they aren't 'productive', but the gains won't just come straight away, it's probably worked very well and it shows up when you are in the 10s or 5s as ummm what's the wooord.... consequential effects??? lol