Where to go from here(long)?

F

Firminator

New Member
I'm a 52 yr old that has been lifting for over 20 yrs and using HST for the past 4. For the past year, I have been on a plateau strength wise. This means that for my past 6 cycles or so - I have pretty much been using the same rep maxes.

I use 1 set for 15's, 2 sets for 10's and 3 sets for 5's. This has been my current routine for the past year along with my 5 rep maxes:
AM
Leg Press(280) or Leg Extension(200)
Ham Curls(130)
Incline Bench Press(235)
Hammer Pulldowns(250)
Seated DB Press(70's)
Straight Bar Curls(125)
V-Bar Pushdowns(220)
PM
Calf Raise(600)
Flat DB Bench(95's)
Seated Rows(235)
Shrugs(95's)
Bent-Over Lateral Raises(40's)
Close Grip E-Z Curls(125)
Rope Tri - Extensions(160)


I'm 5'10" and weigh between 210-215 when I'm in my 5's, a little lighter when lifting lighter. When I'm in my 5's, I may change my AM/PM workouts to 6 days per week - 1 workout per day. I do this according to my energy level. I'm currently trying to extend my 5's (6 weeks) so I can SD over the holidays - and it's getting to be a grind.

I have pain in both elbows that exists even after SD and 2 weeks of 15's. I currently only take two 2 mile walks per week but plan to incorporate more cardio into my workouts after the holidays -  I really need to.

Right now I only supplement with EPA's, and a multi. Been off Creatine for a couple of months as I have a physical scheduled for the end of the month and don't want my blood tests to be affected.

My questions -

Where should I go from here? Just continue to use the same weights cycle after cycle and just try to maintain what I have (it's not that bad for a 52yr old
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)

Continue to try to improve? If so, how?

I'm open to all suggestions! According to my sig - I'm insane - LOL!

Thanks

Firm
 
Have you had any size gains in the last year?

At 52 years old and with 20 years lifting, I am thinking maybe you have reached your genetic limit.
 
I am not overly knowledgable in strength dept. That being said you may want to try a 5x5 strenth routine or SST from HST other dept. here on the forum.

That beings said I want to comend you for being a good role model at 52 and to keep pursueing the iron at the level you are doing. I truely hope I am blessed to still be able to go at it like it sounds like you do at your current age!!

Weights are the fountain of youth!!!

Joe
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Firm

I don't quite know what to say.

How long was your longest SD?

Time to put that dept. to the test, I think :D

Maybe the strength training is teh way to go after a nice long SD.

Can't say you are on the loosing side, on the other hand I think HST will have limits according to one's best genetic pre-disposition, I think when one reaches that one should change the goals to maintenance rather than adding on....

My 0.02$ anyway.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Fausto @ Dec. 12 2005,4:32)]Firm
I don't quite know what to say.
How long was your longest SD?
Time to put that dept. to the test, I think :D
Maybe the strength training is teh way to go after a nice long SD.
Can't say you are on the loosing side, on the other hand I think HST will have limits according to one's best genetic pre-disposition, I think when one reaches that one should change the goals to maintenance rather than adding on....
My 0.02$ anyway.
Click to expand...
During this past summer, I took my longest SD ever - 16 days. I did this at the advice of Old & Grey(I miss him). I really didn't notice much difference in my next cycle though. My normal SD is 9 days.
I'm not even sure where I want to go from here.  :confused:  I can't see myself at 52 going on an eating binge to gain another 15 lbs - so I guess I'm in maintenance - LOL.
I'm just looking for something different as it seems I just keep doing the same thing over and over and while it's ok, I'm no longer racing to the gym the way I was when I first started HST. Then again, maybe the grind of trying to extend my 5's until Christmas week is wearing me out both physically AND mentally.
Maybe I'll just do a couple of more cycles of what I've been doing then when the warmer weather hits try getting more definition than I've ever tried for before.
Thanks
Firm
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Firminator @ Dec. 12 2005,10:39)]I'm a 52 yr old that has been lifting for over 20 yrs and using HST for the past 4. For the past year, I have been on a plateau strength wise. This means that for my past 6 cycles or so - I have pretty much been using the same rep maxes.
I use 1 set for 15's, 2 sets for 10's and 3 sets for 5's. This has been my current routine for the past year along with my 5 rep maxes:
AM
Leg Press(280) or Leg Extension(200)
Ham Curls(130)
Incline Bench Press(235)
Hammer Pulldowns(250)
Seated DB Press(70's)
Straight Bar Curls(125)
V-Bar Pushdowns(220)
PM
Calf Raise(600)
Flat DB Bench(95's)
Seated Rows(235)
Shrugs(95's)
Bent-Over Lateral Raises(40's)
Close Grip E-Z Curls(125)
Rope Tri - Extensions(160)
I'm 5'10" and weigh between 210-215 when I'm in my 5's, a little lighter when lifting lighter. When I'm in my 5's, I may change my AM/PM workouts to 6 days per week - 1 workout per day. I do this according to my energy level. I'm currently trying to extend my 5's (6 weeks) so I can SD over the holidays - and it's getting to be a grind.
I have pain in both elbows that exists even after SD and 2 weeks of 15's. I currently only take two 2 mile walks per week but plan to incorporate more cardio into my workouts after the holidays -  I really need to.
Right now I only supplement with EPA's, and a multi. Been off Creatine for a couple of months as I have a physical scheduled for the end of the month and don't want my blood tests to be affected.
My questions -
Where should I go from here? Just continue to use the same weights cycle after cycle and just try to maintain what I have (it's not that bad for a 52yr old
tounge.gif
)
Continue to try to improve? If so, how?
I'm open to all suggestions! According to my sig - I'm insane - LOL!
Thanks
Firm
Click to expand...

Before I'd throw in the towel I'd try a couple things.

I'd change my exercises altogether, use some different machines,etc.  There are a myriad of exercises you can perform with cable machines. I like the lever type machines "Hammer Strength" as well.

Changeups of exercises is old days thinking, as compared to HST.  It worked 20+ years ago, and should still be viable.
You might think about a couple of cutting cyles to get some change up in your diet.
 
You might also take on changes in the speed you make your reps.  I know everyone says a good clean careful rep is worth two quick not so clean reps.  I'm not sure I've ever agreed that slower decisive reps are the answer.  Muscle moving at speed is just not an issue as long as the muscle can move faster.

I'd also look into supplements that help retain lean muscle tissue, i.e, glutamine.  There are several more of these type supplements, which I don't recall off hand.

My understanding is when we grow older our body tends to lose lean muscle tissue.  It is important to exercise and supplement to maintain or enhance muscular development.

Also, you might look into a couple of sites of older body builders like larry scott and dave draper. Larry has a forums and makes frequent responses on the boards.

http://www.larryscott.com
http://www.davedraper.com

thumbs-up.gif
 
Try a strength orientated program?

I still find HST has mades me stronger than any other program. Use free weights exercises? T-Bar, dips, deads?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (liegelord @ Dec. 13 2005,3:24)]I would get back to basics i.e., squats, deadlifts, weighted dips and chins and standing presses.
Click to expand...
i think this would be a good idea if your mentaly tired less to do so you can concentrate on strength :D
 
I agree with what has already been posted (basic exercises, etc). As you know, the HST program is meant for muscle growth. Some people also experience strength gains as well, especially early on. As far as REAL strength increases go, there is just too little time spent working with heavy weights in HST. I had been power lifting off & on for years (benched 415 lbs at bw of 195). When I was working up to a contest or 1RM, I would always start going direct from my warm up sets (30% 1RM for say 10, then 50%-60% of 1RM for about 5), and jump up to what I could triple (skipping any pyramiding). I would work in this 3RM and gradually increase it over about a month (sometimes would go with the 2RM). Getting up to the heavy weights quickly before you exhaust the muscle & staying in that heavy range was the key to getting really strong. Its not much for growth, just to get stronger.
HOWEVER, as you know, getting stronger has the much higher risk of injury (so be careful). These days I stick with 325 x3 which I know I can do & not risk injury, those heavy power lifting days are over. These days, I'd rather look like I can bench 500 even if I can't.
On the elbow thing (I have pain in both elbows that exists even after SD and 2 weeks of 15's) try Glucosamine and Chondroitin. Worked great for golfers elbow, but takes about 1 month to get working.
Regarding HST, I'll be doing my first HST cycle right after the new year...Looking forward to it!!!!
Omega
 
Hey Firm,

You and O&G have a few years on me, but I've been training more than 30 years. I find shorter cycles seem to work better for me, and I remember O&G posting something similar. Using cycles of only around 4 weeks allows me to use some fairly large jumps in weight and seems to allow me to keep gains coming before stiff and sore joints and attachments start to bother me. I know there is some research that indicates longer cycles are better, but I'm not sure how applicable that is to ... well, lets call us "extremely experienced" trainers. Sounds better than "older", right? ;) Good luck!
 
Firm Guy,

My first reaction is don't go I really enjoy having you on here. Especially since I am in my late 40s, it is great seeing guys like you staying with it.

I have been lifting off and on since I was 14. More off than on. Overtraining and burnout was a recurring issue with me. That is one of the reasons I love HST.

------------

Now to your situation.

Not sure what the answer is. You are probably close to your natural potential now. Here are a few thoughts.

1) Switch your routine. (as said before) That could shock your muscles AND it will make things different. New again.

2) Switch gyms -- won't make you grow but it is good medicne for burn out.

3) Focus on cardio. Once some one gets close to their genetic potential -- the issue may become not to gain more muscle --BUT to see how much muscle you can hold on to as you lean out. It can be a win - win --> it is healthy, your are more athletic, and the bulk you have shows better

4) Be content with maintenace. I know you don't think you are big enough...but other people do. Remember your story about the people on the beach at Cancun?

Just some ideas big guy. But dont' go, great having you around.
worship.gif
worship.gif


Best, Bob ;)
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bob Evans @ Dec. 14 2005,10:37)]Firm Guy,
My first reaction is don't go I really enjoy having you on here.  
Click to expand...
I'm not gonna go anywhere buddy! Don't want you to be the old guy here !  ;)

As I was looking over my training notes from the past couple of years, I realized that I have been using pretty much the same weights for quite some time now. Then I started wondering how many guys that have been using HST for a couple of years or more are doing the same thing?

I mean how many cycles can you add 5 or 10 lbs per exercise before it bottoms out - once it does - then what? That's where my head was. Some people have had some good suggestions that I will consider for my next cycle.


Chiefhog - No I haven't had my test levels checked in a couple of years but I have a dr's appt on 12/30 to do a complete physical. I will ask him then about my test level, etc.

Thanks
Firm
 
Firm

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]No I haven't had my test levels checked in a couple of years but I have a dr's appt on 12/30 to do a complete physical.
Click to expand...

Interesting, Jon Benson who does the M-power series says in one of his articles that he had just that problem and the article points out that he did a complete blood work analysis and got to know his endcrine status, one of his problems (when he was a fat man) and I am not at all saying it is your case was that he was short of testosterone, since he got that fixed he was a different person, O & G was such an example (withot the fat part he..he..he) I miss the old bugger!

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I know there is some research that indicates longer cycles are better, but I'm not sure how applicable that is to ... well, lets call us "extremely experienced" trainers. Sounds better than "older", right?
Click to expand...

Sure does, mate, sure does
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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Be content with maintenace. I know you don't think you are big enough...but other people do.
Click to expand...

This is what I am going to do, when I find I cannot add more mass, got a waaaaay to go though!

Cheers
 
I agree with the cutting idea. It would be a real challenge to try to hold on to as much muscle as possible while leaning out. Plus it will make you look bigger. ;)

Regards,
Dimitris
 
I have been chewing on this for the last two days. It is a great question / topic theme. Because we all will face or are facing Firmulator's question: We are getting close to genetic potential what is one to do?


One thing that helped me last spring was -- vicious's cutomizing HST. I tryied some of his stuff and it made my 5s post 5s new again. I also had significant strength gains ans some size gains. Specifically "clustering" helped me. Doing just 3 or even 2 rep. Firmman -- I bet your 235 5 rep max would add another 20 or 30 lbs if you did 3 reps. It helped me go for more weight in th 5s / post 5s.


Also once someone gets to where Firmguy is -- it think it is important to focus on a few muscles 1 2 or 3 muscles to target in a cycle. Sure you still do a full boydy workout but you stack it so you are focusing on a body part. In away you do maintaince for most of your body and slam one or two parts.

So focus on a few body parts and focus on a hairy 5s post 5s. This could give you the bump you are looking for.

Bob :D
 
Yes, as one appraoches the limit, there really is no other more effective alternative than to focus on a few muscle groups at a workout and go heavier than you used to. The workouts simply have to be more brutal, due to a pile up of RBE over the years. This is why Bryan has a split routine, like most other lifter who've been bodybuilding for years on end.
 
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