Which is Better

F

Firminator

New Member
For a few years, I've done AM/PM full body workouts, 3 days per week. Using chest as an example - In the AM I did Incline Bench Press and in the PM I did Flat DB Bench Press. I loved training this way but over time, this training seemed to get to the point where it was too demanding for my 54 yr old body. Especially when extending 5's.

So this cycle I decided to do :

M - Chest, Shoulders
T - Back, Biceps
W - Legs, Triceps
T - Chest, Shoulders
F - Back, Biceps
S - Legs, Triceps

I do 3 exercises for Chest, Back, Shoulders and Legs and two exercises for Bi's, & Tri's. Doing 1 set for 15's, 2sets for 10's and 3 sets for 5's.

Previously , when I did Flat DB Bench Press in the PM I was 5-10 lbs stronger than when I do it now immediately after my Incline Bench. I'm also finding that on is true on the 2nd or 3rd exercise for other body parts. Makes sense to me but it's kinda depressing to drop from 95 lb DB's to 85's.

My question - which is better for hypertrophy - 3 sets of DB Bench using 95 lbs (6 hours after my incline bench sets) or 3 sets of DB using 85 lbs (immediately following my Incline Bench Press)?

Thanks for your opinions!

Firm
 
<div>
(Firminator @ Nov. 26 2007,10:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My question - which is better for hypertrophy - 3 sets of DB Bench using 95 lbs (6 hours after my incline bench sets) or 3 sets of DB using 85 lbs (immediately following my Incline Bench Press)?</div>
wait 6 hours and train with 95 lb. dbs. 85 lb. dbs. is less load. you want all the load you can get.
 
i know it would be nicer to just get it all over with at once but why else do you guys choose the 2nd method?
 
<div>
(fergman @ Nov. 26 2007,16:05)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Firminator @ Nov. 26 2007,10:48)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My question - which is better for hypertrophy - 3 sets of DB Bench using 95 lbs (6 hours after my incline bench sets) or 3 sets of DB using 85 lbs (immediately following my Incline Bench Press)?</div>
wait 6 hours and train with 95 lb. dbs. 85 lb. dbs. is less load. you want all the load you can get.</div>
Logic tells me that 95lbs is better than 85lbs BUT does the body really know the difference? In other words, what is really the greater load - 95lbs on a body part that has had 6 hrs to recover or 85lbs on a body part that is fatigued from 3 sets of Incline Bench just finished?
 
This all depends on how important you think fatigue is for muscle growth. If you think fatigue is definitely necessary, then go with option two.

Personally, I'd go with option 1.
 
this seems to come down to two questions...

Is Fatigue a requirement or optimal for hypertrophy?

Is there an advantage to loading the muscle more than once in 24 hrs... Summation effect??

Thats what I'd like to know
tounge.gif
biggrin.gif
 
The more I train now a days the more I like each bodypart to get hit 2 times a week (instead of 3) but use a little more volume and intensity on the 2 days a week.

From the reseach that I have read it seems there is no difference in 2 a week vs 3 times a week.

One of the studies recommended 30 to 60 reps per muscle group twice a week was just as good as 3 times a week?

So I like the first option....unless of course you are wanting to cut bodyfat then the increased frequency would help.

There is also something to just changing things up every now and again that produces results.

So if you are use to 2 a day routine maybe go to 1 a day routine for 2 months.

Then go back to the other. Change is mentally good for your body sometimes!
 
Ol and to add to my recommendation above.

The 30 to 60 rep range is very client specific.

Meaning the study goes on to say that reps as low as 12 to 15 were good for growth if you use a heavy enough weight.

So long story short I might would shoot for 40 reps on a lighter weights but 20 to 30 is probabley max on the heavy stuff!
biggrin.gif
 
<div>
(RAMROD @ Nov. 26 2007,21:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">this seems to come down to two questions...

Is Fatigue a requirement or optimal for hypertrophy?</div>
I don't think it is a _requirement_ but whether it is optimal or not is something that I think is still up for debate. However, even using MS or clustering, which manages fatigue, you are still going to have some fatigue anyway, which I believe is enough to take care of it.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
Is there an advantage to loading the muscle more than once in 24 hrs... Summation effect??

Thats what I'd like to know
tounge.gif
biggrin.gif

</div>

Probably not... and if I had a choice, instead of waiting six hours, I'd simply rest more between the sets. Perhaps ingest some carbs or whatever, then after maybe ten minutes or so, it would be possible to bang out the 95 lbs instead of dropping down to 85 lbs.

Alternatively, the OP could cluster the reps and still use 95 lbs.
 
Firm, 95lbs is heavier than 85lbs so even if it doesn't feel any different to you it is actually heavier and therefore the structural components of your muscle tissue are being put under a greater strain and stretch. Strain on muscle tissue is a primary hypertrophic stimulus through mechanotransduction (you are actually stretching the muscle cells which respond chemically). However, in this case, the difference in the two loads is not that much and so whichever way you do it you aren't going to experience any great gain or loss.

My vote is with using the heavier load if possible so I'd do what Totz said and take a bit more rest between sets if time allowed. However, this is all really a moot point because in reality you will be incrementing the loads each session. So just because you don't use 95lbs this session doesn't preclude you from using 95lbs next session. In effect your RM for inclines if you do it as a second exercise will be 10lb lower than what it would be if you weren't fatigued at all. Each cycle you should be trying to push up your loads, so as long as that is happening then you will be progressing. Does that make sense?

As an alternative, why not do inclines first on one workout and flat on another? That way you will be keeping tabs on your 'actual' progress with each exercise.
 
<div>
(Lol @ Nov. 27 2007,09:29)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As an alternative, why not do inclines first on one workout and flat on another? That way you will be keeping tabs on your 'actual' progress with each exercise.</div>
That's an idea that I need to think about. Off the top of my head, I'm having a hard time figuring out how to continue a weight progression if it is my primary exercise in one workout and my secondary exercise the next. I'm guessing that my weights will go down in the second case or I will need to cluster to get the target reps.
 
<div>
(Firminator @ Nov. 27 2007,19:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Off the top of my head, I'm having a hard time figuring out how to continue a weight progression if it is my primary exercise in one workout and my secondary exercise the next.</div>

Easy solution. Just use the same weight that you used the previous workout for the second exercise and increment the first. You will still be progressing the loads overall. It doesn't hurt to use the same loads for a couple of workouts.

So, putting this idea into practice, a mesocycle of calculated loads for flat bench and inclines like this:

Flat bench: 150, 155, 160, 165, 170, 175
Inclines:     100, 105, 110, 115, 120, 125

would become this:

Flat bench: 150, 150, 160, 160, 170, 170
Inclines:       95, 105, 105, 115, 115, 125

where you begin with flat bench first and then alternate each workout.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top