Will HST turn you into a huge....

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KungFuJoe

New Member
I know the focus on HST is size and not strength, but seems people are making great size increases, but very little strength increases, and in my case, after going through an entire cycle, my 5RM has either not gone up at all...or if it has...very little (maybe 5 to 10 lbs at the most).

Is there where you mix in a 5x5 or something like that?
 
You will have strength increases, but as you said they will be little.

Strength training should be thrown in there every once in a while. I will be doing my first bout of 5 x 5 ever come September which will be after 15 months of HST.
 
Someone mentioned instead of doing the last 2 weeks of 5RM or negs...just go right into a 5x5 cycle. stacking them, basically. What do you thinka bout that? Too much?
 
My thoughts on that is

a) RBE may catch up to you quick
b) your joints will be hurting
c) you should start off with slightly-sub 5RM weight for 5 x 5

*but you could give it a shot as I haven't tried it
 
I for one really wouldn't mind be a massive weakling. My days of playing football are over and I am not going in any powerlifting events. I just enjoy lifting and want ot look good so HST works for me.

If your main goal is strength, the maybe HST is not the right program for you.
 
i find that hst still gives strength gains. it just happens that size gains come quicker, which is never a bad thing!
 
You'll get strength gains, focus in the compounds, don't zig-zag and eat. I pulled a 500x1 deadlift in my previous HST cycle. This cutting cycle I pulled 425x13 and 455x11.
 
I am a bit surprised at the responses to this question so far.
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What you are suggesting is not true for me at any rate. I have really increased the weights for my main lifts over the last three cycles.

Also, what you are suggesting is that with HST you can continue to grow larger but not get any/much stronger. I don't think HST would elicit much in the way of growth if poundages were not increased from cycle to cycle. Unless you were new to lifting, I can't see how you could make great size increases without some measureable strength increases.
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Colby: Why do you say "You will have strength increases, but as you said they will be little." ? Is this your experience?
 
I tend to agree with LOL, however Colby's got a point.
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Here's my take, with HST one can gain size and strength but one has to keep pushing the envelope, thus the negatives!

We must also remember that there is a bit of strength variables into HST and thus the strength gains.

I have made the biggest lifts of my life while on HST, currently chasing 2x my body weight for squats, 1 1/2 for bench (and here I am only 5 Kg and 2 reps away!)
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Well, yes it is not a pure strength program, it is a hypertrophy program, so be it!
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But I have no knowledge of any huge weaklings around here.
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Then on the other hand, quite a bit of size attainement has to come with strength to an extent!
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Colby: Why do you say &quot;You will have strength increases, but as you said they will be little.&quot; ? Is this your experience? </div>

Well for most lifts I add 5-10 lbs per cycle, which seems little. Recently though, my strength has gone up in deadlift and dips where I have added 30-50 lbs the past two cycles though.
 
Any program where you lift heavy weights will increase your strength. You won't grow if you don't increase your strength. If your maxes did not go up at all, then after a couple cycles, even with SD, you would stagnate.
Personally, since I started HST in Jan of 05, I've had massive gains on every lift. Granted, I did not do HST the whole time, but I did do it most of the time and HST is responsible for most of my strength gain.
 
Once or twice a year I will do a month-long 5X5 program. I will use a weight that I can lift 5 times for my first set but also allow me to get at least 15 reps in 5 sets. For example, the reps may look like 5,4,4,3,3. When I get to 5 sets of 5, I increase the weight. I typically will do Incline bench and weighted chins on M,Th and squats and seated presses on T,F. Nothing fancy or exotic, just plain heavy comp[ound movements.

That being said, I don't think there is anuthing wrong with staying with HST all year either. There is no such thing as a muscular weakling. Sure, you can have big fat weaklings but they obviously don't work out. If you want to test that theory out, just go call the Big O a wimp.
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Some very good answers here: I agree w/ Tot. You are getting stronger if you continue to get larger. You may not &quot;realize&quot; that increased strength unless you do a cycle where you focus on low reps and progressively increasing heavy loads. But if you do this, you should easily hit a new RM.

I would say that if your muscle size has truly increased, then your strength &quot;potential&quot; has increased as well.

Remember also, &quot;Weak&quot; is a relative term. You can always find someone &quot;stronger&quot; in some lift. But if you are significantly muscular, you are stronger than a large % of the population and stronger than nearly everyone who is close to your bodyweight.
 
Just an observation and nothing more so don't read anything into this.

Why would anyone infer that gaining lean muscle size will not cause a gain in strength?
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(Dan Moore @ May 26 2006,13:15)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Just an observation and nothing more so don't read anything into this.

Why would anyone infer that gaining lean muscle size will not cause a gain in strength?  
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On the surface, one could read HST as being a program where you only lift up to your max's over and over, each cycle. The SD allows muscle growth at reduced weight, therfore there is never any need to increase maxes, or set new PRs.

Again, that's the appearance on the surface. Of course we all know from deeper study and practice, your max's increase each time you do a cycle. For example during week 7 and 8, my military press went up 10 lbs higher. That's why we all set new RMs for each new cycle.
 
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(etothepii @ May 26 2006,14:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Again, that's the appearance on the surface. Of course we all know from deeper study and practice, your max's increase each time you do a cycle. For example during week 7 and 8, my military press went up 10 lbs higher. That's why we all set new RMs for each new cycle.</div>
Exactly. In practice this IS the way it works. Those following HST principles and eating sufficient calories increase muscle size WHILE their RM's increase. -- BIGGER and STRONGER.
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Well..the reason I brought this up is, firstly, everyone says that HST is for size, not strength (which, to me, implies that you will get much bigger, but your strength gains will not be in proportion), and secondly because, after completing my first cycle of HST, I have noticable gains in size, but have not been able to increase much, if any, on my 5RM. I HAVE been able to increase my 15 and 10RM (able to do a few more reps), but nothing substantial.

So, I guess I was wondering what I should be expecting and if I was doing something wrong. If everyone says &quot;yeah...that's the way HST works...who cares about strength as long as you look bigger!&quot;, then I can be satisfied that I was doing everything correctly. But if everyone says &quot;nah...you should be gaining strength too...I gained so and so on my 5RM after my first cycle&quot;, then I'll know I can probably improve or change something in my routine.
 
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(KungFuJoe @ May 26 2006,18:08)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well..the reason I brought this up is, firstly, everyone says that HST is for size, not strength (which, to me, implies that you will get much bigger, but your strength gains will not be in proportion), and secondly because, after completing my first cycle of HST, I have noticable gains in size, but have not been able to increase much, if any, on my 5RM.  I HAVE been able to increase my 15 and 10RM (able to do a few more reps), but nothing substantial.  

So, I guess I was wondering what I should be expecting and if I was doing something wrong.  If everyone says &quot;yeah...that's the way HST works...who cares about strength as long as you look bigger!&quot;, then I can be satisfied that I was doing everything correctly.  But if everyone says &quot;nah...you should be gaining strength too...I gained so and so on my 5RM after my first cycle&quot;, then I'll know I can probably improve or change something in my routine.</div>
Ahhhh. Ok

Let me point out something though that may help clarify this whole issue.

Let's say for sh*ts and grins that neural efficiency, pennation and leverage would always be the same (remember sh*ts and grins here).

If no further of the above increases occured during 1 year of HST yet you added 15 lbs of lean mass this would indicate that at least some of it would have been contractile increases. That being the case the amount of force the muscle was able to produce would increase and hence so would strength. To say HST or any other program that adds lean mass is only for growth with no concommittant strength increase is absurd and the &quot;everyone&quot; who is saying this is off their rocker.

If strength gains are a major emphasis then simply continue using your 5RM for an extended period, the ability of a load to cause a response does not diminish overnight and may take weeks before the load actually begins to produce no growth at all. Using a heavy load, as in the 5RM would also add in some neural conditioning that would impact your strength gains, so best of both worlds.

Lastly the objective of HST is to add weight to the bar cycle over cycle and as Totentanz said, if you pick up heavy things you'll get better at picking up heavy things.
 
I run a typical cycle of HST until after the fives, then I set my new 5RM in week 4 of my Intermediate 5x5 program. Those four weeks are good active recovery until the weights start to get heavy again. I ride the 5x5 until my strength gains plateau. I then reset to HSTwith my new and improved 5RM and start the process over again.

I am an intermediate lifter, so this works well for me now. I realize that I will eventually turn to dual factor periodization with a loading phase to keep the strength gains coming.
 
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