Working a weight up to 15 reps beneficial enough?

D

DWhite2741

New Member
Let me use this as an example. I'm using 300 for my squats and normally I would use more like 360 and go up 5 pounds every workout for 5 reps. I was wanting to see if working with 300 until I could complete 15 reps with it would be beneficial enough to increase me strength and my size. What are everyone's thoughts on this subject?
 
Working with a weight until you can increase the reps done with that weight is far inferior for growth than progressing the load.

Have you read the faqs yet? These sort of things are all explained in there.
 
As Totz says, if you want to adhere to HST principles in your training then you should be progressing the load over the course of your cycle.

As an example, if 300lbs is your 15RM for squats then you might do a cycle where you have a progression something like this (I'm guessing your other RMs):

2 weeks 15s
225
240
255
270
285
300lb

2 weeks 10s
270
285
300
315
330
345lb

2 weeks 5s
315
330
345
360
375
390lb

Post 5s
Continue to use 390lb. Increment when possible. Manage fatigue with clustering or Max-Stim

This example progression includes zig-zag (where you start 10s and 5s with weights that you have already used during the previous mesocycle). Zig-zag is fine and is a good way to manage fatigue over the cycle.

15s definitely have some hypertrophy potential but you will probably only be triggering full fibre recruitment during the last few reps of the heavier sets. 15s are part of the program because they are beneficial for joint and ligament health, amongst other things. The heavier loads used during 10s and 5s are where most of your gains will come.
 
Ok thanks for the help guys. Do you think if I post what weight I can rep for 5 in each of my workouts, could you guys help me calculate what weight I can use for my cycles? I posted the weight I can do for 5 reps max on each of the compound workouts I use. Some of these I could probably do a few extra reps with but I didn't go beyond 5 reps for fatigue management. I think Lol covered the squats which I thank him for.

Bench Press: 240 x 5

Deadlift: 275 x 5

Rows: 165 x 5

Military Press: 160 x 5 to chin level and 135 x 5 to upper chest level since I switched to that recently in hopes that it would be more beneficial.
 
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(Lol @ Nov. 24 2007,08:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">15s definitely have some hypertrophy potential but you will probably only be triggering full fibre recruitment during the last few reps of the heavier sets. 15s are part of the program because they are beneficial for joint and ligament health, amongst other things. The heavier loads used during 10s and 5s are where most of your gains will come.</div>
Not to hi-jack the thread, but I've had nice hypertrophy gains during the 15's.   One adjustment I made was pushing to near-fatigue for each set rather than stopping at 15 reps (or whatever the rep range).  Perhaps increased fibre recruitment and/or muscle metabolic activity under these conditions?  Seems to be working so far, although diet has been part of it.

Anyway, back to regular programming...
 
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(DWhite2741 @ Nov. 24 2007,16:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Ok thanks for the help guys. Do you think if I post what weight I can rep for 5 in each of my workouts, could you guys help me calculate what weight I can use for my cycles? I post the weight I can do for 5 reps max on each of the compound workouts I use. Some of these I could probably do a few extra reps with but I didn't go beyond 5 reps for fatigue management. I think Lol covered the squats which I thank him for.

Bench Press: 240 x 5

Deadlift: 275 x 5

Rows: 165 x 5

Military Press: 160 x 5 to chin level and 135 x 5 to upper chest level since I switched to that recently in hopes that it would be more beneficial.</div>
hey, have you tried the HST calculator on http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html? If you search in the board, you can find more advanced calculators, but this is a good start point.

I have attached a screen-shoot of your w/o? Hope it helps
 
A few observations:

If your deads are at 275 for 5 reps but your squats are at around 400 for 5 reps then that would suggest to me that you are only doing partial range squats. On the other hand you may not have been deadlifting that long.
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Partials are ok and have their place but for more TUT per rep for your quads and for a better workout for your hammies, a deeper squat technique is the way to go.

If you are already squatting below parallel then your deads would normally be quite a bit higher than your squat numbers (unless you were a very tall person).

It probably goes without saying but, when setting up your routine, don't be too fussy about trying to match the poundages that the HST calculator throws up (depending on the increments you set). So if it said 358lbs just go with 355 as that's much easier to load up - unless you have single pounders!

Calculating poundages by starting with 75% of your RM for a rep range and adding 5% each workout generally works pretty well.
 
Well I try to go to parrallel but I don't really do ass to grass squats. As for deadlifts, I have deadlifted 360 before but I tend to use lighter weight for deadlifts mainly because of grip issues I believe. I don't have any sort of powder to help my grip because my hands get sweaty and can slip easy.

Possibly I should lower my weight and work back up with ass to grass squats since they might be more beneficial?
 
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(DWhite2741 @ Nov. 24 2007,23:34)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well I try to go to parrallel but I don't really do ass to grass squats. As for deadlifts, I have deadlifted 360 before but I tend to use lighter weight for deadlifts mainly because of grip issues I believe. I don't have any sort of powder to help my grip because my hands get sweaty and can slip easy.

Possibly I should lower my weight and work back up with ass to grass squats since they might be more beneficial?</div>
When I was on my prime I did parallel squat of 200 kg or 440 lbs. The lift was done according to the Powerlifting comp standards. My deadlift -that I do not like- was 230 kg or 510 lbs. I have always believed that this should be the &quot;industry norm&quot; as with deadlift there is no fear of toppling over or crumbling under the weight.

Slippery hands? By a pair of wrist straps and ask someone to show you how to use them.

Squat is for real men!
 
DWhite: grip tape the bar right where you grab it. Electrician's friction tape (it's like black sticky cloth) is the stuff. A little gets on your hands when lifting heavy, but so what?
Then, THEN, when you can't even grip with the tape, you can use wraps to assist the lift. You want to build as much grip strength from the initial lifts as you can. I'd guess that for your size, up to around 300-315 you should be able to go nekkid. If not, do some hangs for grip. Now if I'd just follow my own advice...I'd be pulling this 380 without straps!
I've done this cycle with lower squats myself and found it beneficial, even though I'm not squatting my former weights yet; I'm squatting more ATG than I was able to before.
 
The powder name is magnesium carbonate. It's about 2$ per brick. One brick lasts about 100 workouts, perhaps more. I haven't used it up yet after six months. It also comes in plain powder but I prefer the brick because it's more practical. I put it in a sealed plastic container to carry.

For full squat, begin with a light weight to learn the proper technique. When you've got the technique down, find your RMs and go from there. Eventually, you may be able to use about 75% of your deadlift.
 
I tried regular chalk, not finding the magnesium stuff and it slipped. I went the tape route to keep my floors clean, especially my corrugated rubber mats.
Our local gym has a donation box the guys drop a quarter into now and then; buys the chalk. I just thot that was cool.
 
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(quadancer @ Nov. 25 2007,15:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I tried regular chalk, not finding the magnesium stuff and it slipped. I went the tape route to keep my floors clean, especially my corrugated rubber mats.
Our local gym has a donation box the guys drop a quarter into now and then; buys the chalk. I just thot that was cool.</div>
Yeah, regular chalk would actually be a bit of a lubricant.

You can find lifting chalk on ebay and other sites pretty easily and for fairly cheap, but you have to pay for shipping. If you buy multiple quantities, typically the places will throw a brick or two in for free.
 
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(DWhite2741 @ Nov. 25 2007,16:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So should I begin with 135 pounds for ATG squats and how fast should I progress the load in my first HST cycle?</div>
You can even begin with no bar. I do that before I begin the set on squat day to get a feel for my feet position and whatnot. A reminder of sorts. Also a good way to find the problem if there is one.

For progression, check your other heavy lifts as a basis for comparison. Sort it out after you find your RMs.
 
Like Martin says, start out light and get a feel for the movement. I would start them next cycle so that when you kick off with 15s you are already using light loads. That way you can progress the load once you get a feel for the movement.

If 135 is light for regular 15s then start with that but get a feel for the movement with just the bar first if you like.

Check out Dan John's coaching vid for some guidance on body positioning, stance and technique for a deeper squat:

Dan John FitCast video
 
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