Zig zagging question

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by Biception, Sep 23, 2006.

  1. Biception

    Biception New Member

    I’m sitting here at the computer playing with rep variation and the HST calculator and my question is how could you do HST and NOT zig zag especially for the lifts that use smaller weights?.

    For example using Bryans suggestion to figure out your 10 rep from your 15 rep max you add 20% and for the 5 rep max you add 15% on to the 10 reps max. I realize this isn’t as good as figure out each rep max but it’s pretty close for me especially if you vary the tempo just a tad.

    So let’s say you are doing curls and 50 lbs is your 15 rep max.

    10 rep max would be 60 lbs.

    5 rep max would be 69 pounds.


    So if you didn’t zig-zag quite a bit and just started the next 2 week cycle where you left off you would hit your max reps at the second workout of the 2 week cycle. Am I all screwed up? Or is a situation like this where you would use the same weight for a couple of workouts in a row?

    Thanks
     
  2. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    This is me, not HST guidelines, but I tend to simply keep my progression thru the whole cycle, repeating any weight that I cannot do in good form until I can, and that's almost always just one workout.
    So if you started at 50 lbs. with 5 lb. increments, your 15 rep max would be 75 lbs. Your 10 rep max would be 105, and your 5 rep max would be 135, assuming that you didn't have to repeat anything, but that's unlikely for all the exersizes and probable for some. As a newbie, you could use smaller increments if that's too much progression. (2-1/2 lbs.)
    It works for me, and keeps it simple, like me. I just think that it makes no sense to start the next mesocycle with a weight that is entirely too easy, so I came up with this progression and it works. If you can do a 75 lb. 15, you can doggone sure do an 80 lb. 10.
        Some of the guys are doing a weight twice rather than progress each workout - there's another thing you can try, to slow down the progression. Keep your form, no matter what. Poor form will rob you of gains.

    Welcome to the addictive world of HST!
     
  3. lcars

    lcars New Member

    <div>
    (quadancer @ Sep. 23 2006,17:44)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">This is me, not HST guidelines, but I tend to simply keep my progression thru the whole cycle, repeating any weight that I cannot do in good form until I can, and that's almost always just one workout.
    So if you started at 50 lbs. with 5 lb. increments, your 15 rep max would be 75 lbs. Your 10 rep max would be 105, and your 5 rep max would be 135, assuming that you didn't have to repeat anything, but that's unlikely for all the exersizes and probable for some. As a newbie, you could use smaller increments if that's too much progression. (2-1/2 lbs.)
    It works for me, and keeps it simple, like me. I just think that it makes no sense to start the next mesocycle with a weight that is entirely too easy, so I came up with this progression and it works. If you can do a 75 lb. 15, you can doggone sure do an 80 lb. 10.
        Some of the guys are doing a weight twice rather than progress each workout - there's another thing you can try, to slow down the progression. Keep your form, no matter what. Poor form will rob you of gains.

    Welcome to the addictive world of HST!</div>
    well put!

    i now tend to progress weekly as apposed to daily to avoid zigzaging and to feel like ive actually worked out.
     
  4. Taank

    Taank New Member

    For my second cycle, which I just started, I am only incrementing 2 times for the 2 week block. There are actually one or two excercises that have a 2 week block where i only increase the weights once. Currently mliitary press is the only exercise that I have increasing every workout.

    for example, during the 15's my incline press looks like this:
    125, 125, 135, 135, 145, 145 (2 weight increases)

    during the 10's:
    150,150,160,160,170,170 (2 weight increases)

    and, during the 5's I had to do this:
    180,180,180,190,190,190 (1 weight increases)

    This is just something I had to do, or else my increments
    would be to small.

    If anyone thinks this is horrible, please let me know.
     
  5. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    <div>
    (Biception @ Sep. 23 2006,22:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So let’s say you are doing curls and 50 lbs is your 15 rep max.

    10 rep max would be 60 lbs.

    5 rep max would be 69 pounds.</div>
    When poundages are light like this incrementing every w/o is never quite as obvious.

    For your example I would probably do this:

    15s 35,35,40,45,45,50
    10s 45,50,50,55,55,60
    5s 55,60,60,65,65,70

    This way you are still starting each mesocycle at between 70 &amp; 80% of your RM load. There is nothing wrong with a bit of zig-zagging. Personally, I like it and I've made good progress. Once poundages are up a bit it does get easier to increment. Absolutely agree with Quad about form.

    Taank: I don't think what you've done is horrible at all. See how you get on this cycle. For me I found that keeping too close to my RM loads for the whole cycle was more draining and didn't help my progress any compared with when I had more zig-zagging. With this in mind, you may find the 5s take it out of you a bit.

    So, using your example, (assuming you have 2.5lb plates) I'd just do something simple like this:

    during the 15's: 120,125,130,135,140,145

    during the 10's: 140,145,150,160,165,170

    and, during the 5's: 165,170,175,180,185,190

    But I'd be alternating so I'd actually do:

    15s: 125,135,145
    10s: 150,160,170
    5s: 170,180,190
     
  6. Peak_Power

    Peak_Power New Member

    There are many benefits to zigzagging, most importantly it saves your joints. Better to do a 12 week cycle with the first 2 workouts of every minicycle being easy, than doing an 8 week block and ruining your joints from the constant heavy loads. If you're not strong enough that your 5RM is high enough above your 15RM to avoid zigzagging, then the weights in between will induce hypertrophy. So why avoid them?
     
  7. stan

    stan New Member

    Yeah, I don't like too much zig-zagging myself, that's why I repeat the same weight once every week.

    I exercise mon/wed/fri, and I repeat the monday exercise on wednesdays, this means I only have to repeat maybe one set of weights again when switching from 15 to 10's or 10 to 5's.

    K.
     

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