Please Help - they try to ban supps in europe

T

TheCrown

New Member
dudes, we in europe need your help! phamaceutic industry also tryed to do this in the US, but the american people defeated these crooks.

we must stand up against thois pharmaeutical lobby and stop them. we are the people and we have the power!!

lets stop this

otherwise they will try to do this throughout the world!

We count on you!

alliance-natural-health
 
Look, Crown, on principle alone I'm against the government banning anything, but you need to be more informative on your website. All I kept reading was that the EU was going to ban substances not on the Annex 2 list. What does this include, what doesn't it? If it turns out that the EU is just trying to normalize the legal treatment of steroid level drugs throughout the union you've got a certain type of fight in front of you, and a certain type of person you've got to reach. If it's something else, like something on the level of the recent Ephedra ban in the US, again it's a differentball game.
 
As long as they don't ban protein, MRPs, essential fatty acids, and vitamins and minerals, and creatine you are just fine.

The only other thing that builds muscle and burns fat are hormones.

Ephedrine/caffeine are THE most effective fat loss combination there is, better than T3, Clen, etc. Ephedrine's days are numbered however.

So, if you are a natural lifter, you don't have much to worry about. If you aren't natural, you still still don't have anything to worry about because the channels for acquiring illegal hormones will still exist.

The only people who will be hurt are the stoopid supplement companies that sell overpriced products that don't do what they say they do (~95% of all supplements).
 
I'm all for it!
Gone will be all your fly by night, fleece 'em while you can companies. For very little outlay any company can set up a glossy "front shop" and what with mass media being sooo cheap nowadays; you only have to attract a small percentage of customers to make a quick buck/£.
There are many companies out there where you have no recourse should a product not do what it says on the tin...
Invariably somewhere on the packaging, no matter how small, will be the caveat: "...individual results may vary"
Just one more thought, if body enhancement drugs become mainstream, ie a pushed by big drug companies then I think you'll see more prescriptions given out for them by doctors... more sales/more money - can the top labs afford not to develop them?
'cos if all the supplement companies throw in the towel, there's a lot of consumers who'll want replacement products.
TDM
 
One confusing reply, and one scary.
I don't think ephedrine has been banned, Bryan, just its herbal variation which was cheaper and from which pharmacutical companies didn't make a profit. Bronchaid and other otc medications with ephedrine are still out there and I don't think the ban will affect them. Do you have some more information that says the ban will cover all the products?
Also as for the availability of steroids and prohormones on the black market, they may be easy to get but they'll be far more dangerous and any accountability for damage done by tainted or defective products will impossible to realize. Problem is the market will be there no matter what, the pragmatic answer seems to be keeping them legal with safety restrictions that can be effectively enforced.
As for Dark Master, if you voluntarily paid for the supplement you didn't get fleeced. It doesn't take that much research to find out what's a crock and what's genuine. No one forced you to buy it, did they?
All the law will do is put a regulatory boundry up which will cost money to get past, and not necessarily ensure good products. What is and is not allowed on the market will by nature of the regulatory system be dictated by politics, not science. What it will ensure is that only bigger companies will be able to do research and bring a product to market, because smaller companies won't be able to afford it anymore. Whether it works or not, whether it's dangerous or not, or anything else that's actually relevant won't be the primary factors in determining what gets to market.
 
Creatine is actually banned within several sports in Europe.

I think it is for example illegal for a soccerplayer in Spain to use this supplement.
dozingoff.gif
 
xahrx
Your last post was, quite frankly, a load of bollocks and more scary & confusing than urine therapy.

I personally have never been caught out by a supplement yet. Luckily I was too young & skint to afford Cybergenics - first time round [wiser the 2nd] and saw straight thru' good ol' Bill with EAS (HMB et al.)

What I want, as I'm sure many others do, is a product that contains what & only what is listed on the label. Thoroughly tested.

This applies in life also (do you remember that lil' ol' war we've just had - the intelligence was there; but it seems that it was "misinterpretated")

As for politics ruling the roost; you'll find that almost any drug/compound/animal experiment is allowed when dealing with science research permits eg. cocaine, morphine, usnic acid, etc.

I'm not saying that it'll be a perfect...

TDM
 
Not sure if this is what TheCrown is referring to, but last I heard the EU was trying to regulate vitamin and mineral supplements down to placebo dosages (ie. making the Recommended Daily Intakes the maximum dosage for a given vitamin). So, for example, the biggest dose of vitamin C you would be legally allowed to buy would be a 30mg pill. Considering that some sports nutritionists (eg. Dr Michael Colgan) recommend 2- 12 grams of vitamin C per day, you can see the problem.
 
ROFL at "misinterpretated". Is that why there were no "nucular" weapons found? But seriously, Mr. Haycock is right again. The only supplement I've ever used is protein mix (I just can't choke down all that meat/eggs/etc), and a good spotter, if you consider that a supplement. And I know people who've spent hundreds on "miracle" supplements, all the while ignoring the ONE thing you need more than any food or supplement to get big or strong- HARD WORK.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]What I want, as I'm sure many others do, is a product that contains what & only what is listed on the label. Thoroughly tested.
Click to expand...
You don't need costly regulation to give you this.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]As for politics ruling the roost; you'll find that almost any drug/compound/animal experiment is allowed when dealing with science research permits eg. cocaine, morphine, usnic acid, etc.
Click to expand...
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, a little proof reading would be nice. While I'm not sure what your point is, my point is that when the legality of drugs/supplements is determined by the government, it's determined politically and not through scientific fact.
Putting aside for a moment the ethicality and constitutionality of any type of prohibition here in US, the drug schedule as it exists is moronic and makes no sense. Mild drugs with few side effects find themselves high on the schedule, intensly harmful drugs with no known health benefits are widely available, and somewhat harder drugs that can still be used safely with health benefits find themselves somewhere in the middle. It's all determined by who can buy enough legislators and win enough cultural battles.
Letting the government handle the market in supplements is a sure way to screw it up, limit choices, raise prices, and not accomplish much if anything in the way of safety or honesty in labeling.
What's more, bringing back in ethicality and constitutionality, it's no one's business what I or anyone else does with my own body. Nor is it anyone else's responsiblity but mine to determine the safety and the validity of the claims about what I put into my own body. Nor does it take much work to accomplish.
 
xahrx, just how much prozac are you on? - me thinks you needst a higher dosage... You should also think about a course in speed reading - that way previous posts (in the same thread) may stay in you goldfish like memory long enough to make some cognitive connection twixt question & answer.

TDM

PS. How would Geo. W define "ironny"?

PPS Don't get me wrong, I'm all for freedom of choice - that's why I'm from "Engerland" and not the United States of Europe...
 
Mmm, ad hominems - wasn't it Xahrx who impuned our intelligence in the first place? (by arguing against Bryan/my views - instead of the thread subject)

QED
 
what are you all talking about?
I don't care about creatine, ephidrine.
this is all about vitamins and minerals! (as debo said)
they try to limit vitamin and mineral supplementation, what will ban virtually 70% of the european supplement industry.
what really shocked me is that they try to ban organic supplements (which are proven to be much more effectiv)
this shows that this is all fake. therefore it will be stopped.
don't get me wrong. I'm not a supplement enthusiast!
I'm a natural bodybuilder and medical student, but this goes much too far. everyone should have the freedom to choose supplements, vitamins and minerals, in doses he wants to.


@bryan: I completly disagree with you. this is an absolute BS statement you made.
It was and will never be a solution to look only for yourself.
this is about vitamins and minerals. this is about health of people, not only of bodybuilders or mine.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (TheCrown @ Mar. 16 2004,12:57)]@bryan: I completly disagree with you. this is an absolute BS statement you made.
It was and will never be a solution to look only for yourself.
this is about vitamins and minerals. this is about health of people, not only of bodybuilders or mine.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, I guess I don't follow what you are talking about... What comment do you disagree with?
 
ahh, now i see what you are referring to.

They are not banning all vitamin and mineral supplements, they are simply thinking of restricting the amounts that can be put into each tablet. They are worried about the potential for damage when people start taking several 1000mg+ tablets of any one vitamin every day.

You will still be able to buy mulitvitamins and seperate vitamin pills etc, but none of them will go above the recommended daily allowance. So if you want to get mega doses you will have to go out of your way to do so by buying more pills.

Also, the reason for them talking about restricting the supply of herbal supplements is that anything herbal is subject to natural variation. They want all supplements to be standardised so that people know exactly the dosages they are consuming, and that these dosages are within reasonable limits.
 
@bryan:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
As long as they don't ban protein, MRPs, essential fatty acids, and vitamins and minerals, and creatine you are just fine.
Click to expand...

@stevie: oh no.......... I don't need a discussion about supplementation of vitamins and minerals.
of course most people don't need them to survive, but supplementation may/will improve a lot of body functions.

therefore restrictions to minimal doses is fatal for people that want improve their health beyond the average.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
You will still be able to buy mulitvitamins and seperate vitamin pills etc, but none of them will go above the recommended daily allowance.
Click to expand...
exactly, but I thing the RDA is BS. is the minimum not to get acute deseases, therefore you'll get chronic ones.
nice deal!
 
i know your english is not very good, but could you please reread what i wrote before.

You should be getting most of your vitamins, minerals and other nutrient goodies through your diet anyway. If you are relying on big vitamin dosages then there is something wrong with your diet which you need to sort out.

And RDA is not BS as you put it. It is a guide line. Something for the general population to go by. As a bodybuilder i dont know that the RDA is totally worthless to you. Perhaps you could argue that active individuals trying to increase and support extra muscle mass do need more vitamins and minerals. But i doubt that mega dosages of vitamins are necessary.

Regardless, like i said before, I dont see that we have any problem here in europe. you will still be able to get your big vitamin and mineral dosages if you really want them....just consume a greater number of pills.
 
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