I am going to do a 6 week cycle of 800mg of 1-AD and max dosage of andro spray. I am currently at the end of my Strategic Deconditioning after my first cycle of HST. I am just curious what would be the best way to incorporate the pro-hormones into my next HST cycle and keep the most gains i can after coming off.
1-AD and 4-AD cycle
- Thread starter jb1309
- Start date
virtualcyber
New Member
Starting your cycle.
1-AD's power kicks in after 2 - 4 weeks. So, you probably should synchronize the start of 10's minicycle of HST with the start of your 1-AD and 4-AD cycle. So when you are doing 5's and negatives, you should feel the strength gains at the heaviest loads. In other words, when your body begins to respond to 1-AD, you will be at the "growth" phase of HST.
For some people, 1-AD kicks in faster; if your are one of those folks, you probably want to delay starting to take 1-AD until you start the second week of 10's. If you are one of those folks for whom 1-AD kicks in slower, I'd start 1-AD at the start of the second week of 15's.
============================================
Keeping most gains:
I'd say you need to taper off 1-AD. This is somewhat painstaking, but you need to gradually take less and less of it. Near the end of your cycle, take 700 mg for three days, 600 for the next three, 500 for the next three, so on until you are weaned off.
As you taper off, however, you need to keep lifting heavy. So, your HST cycle may be extended beyone 8 weeks.
I do not think clomid therapy is necesary; if you want to take that route -- well, I know very little about it, so you should do some research on the topic.
===========================================
It is better to start 1-AD cycle just a bit late (with respect of HST) rather than early, because that way, you will be sure that the heaviest lifting phase of HST will coincide with the "growth surge" brought about via 1-AD. Remember, you can always extend HST.
1-AD's power kicks in after 2 - 4 weeks. So, you probably should synchronize the start of 10's minicycle of HST with the start of your 1-AD and 4-AD cycle. So when you are doing 5's and negatives, you should feel the strength gains at the heaviest loads. In other words, when your body begins to respond to 1-AD, you will be at the "growth" phase of HST.
For some people, 1-AD kicks in faster; if your are one of those folks, you probably want to delay starting to take 1-AD until you start the second week of 10's. If you are one of those folks for whom 1-AD kicks in slower, I'd start 1-AD at the start of the second week of 15's.
============================================
Keeping most gains:
I'd say you need to taper off 1-AD. This is somewhat painstaking, but you need to gradually take less and less of it. Near the end of your cycle, take 700 mg for three days, 600 for the next three, 500 for the next three, so on until you are weaned off.
As you taper off, however, you need to keep lifting heavy. So, your HST cycle may be extended beyone 8 weeks.
I do not think clomid therapy is necesary; if you want to take that route -- well, I know very little about it, so you should do some research on the topic.
===========================================
It is better to start 1-AD cycle just a bit late (with respect of HST) rather than early, because that way, you will be sure that the heaviest lifting phase of HST will coincide with the "growth surge" brought about via 1-AD. Remember, you can always extend HST.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (virtualcyber @ June 04 2002,08:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Starting your cycle.
1-AD's power kicks in after 2 - 4 weeks. So, you probably should synchronize the start of 10's minicycle of HST with the start of your 1-AD and 4-AD cycle. So when you are doing 5's and negatives, you should feel the strength gains at the heaviest loads. In other words, when your body begins to respond to 1-AD, you will be at the "growth" phase of HST.
For some people, 1-AD kicks in faster; if your are one of those folks, you probably want to delay starting to take 1-AD until you start the second week of 10's. If you are one of those folks for whom 1-AD kicks in slower, I'd start 1-AD at the start of the second week of 15's.
============================================
Keeping most gains:
I'd say you need to taper off 1-AD. This is somewhat painstaking, but you need to gradually take less and less of it. Near the end of your cycle, take 700 mg for three days, 600 for the next three, 500 for the next three, so on until you are weaned off.
As you taper off, however, you need to keep lifting heavy. So, your HST cycle may be extended beyone 8 weeks.
I do not think clomid therapy is necesary; if you want to take that route -- well, I know very little about it, so you should do some research on the topic.
===========================================
It is better to start 1-AD cycle just a bit late (with respect of HST) rather than early, because that way, you will be sure that the heaviest lifting phase of HST will coincide with the "growth surge" brought about via 1-AD. Remember, you can always extend HST.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
1-AD's power kicks in after 2 - 4 weeks. So, you probably should synchronize the start of 10's minicycle of HST with the start of your 1-AD and 4-AD cycle. So when you are doing 5's and negatives, you should feel the strength gains at the heaviest loads. In other words, when your body begins to respond to 1-AD, you will be at the "growth" phase of HST.
For some people, 1-AD kicks in faster; if your are one of those folks, you probably want to delay starting to take 1-AD until you start the second week of 10's. If you are one of those folks for whom 1-AD kicks in slower, I'd start 1-AD at the start of the second week of 15's.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I am thinking at the beging of the 10's would be my best bet.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
I'd say you need to taper off 1-AD. This is somewhat painstaking, but you need to gradually take less and less of it. Near the end of your cycle, take 700 mg for three days, 600 for the next three, 500 for the next three, so on until you are weaned off.
As you taper off, however, you need to keep lifting heavy. So, your HST cycle may be extended beyone 8 weeks.
I do not think clomid therapy is necesary; if you want to take that route -- well, I know very little about it, so you should do some research on the topic.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Im not to sure about the tapering off thing. I mean I could see taking the whole dosage of 1 AD as you slowly taper it off like first thing in the moring so it wouldnt keep distrubing you natural LH release that occurs at night. I dont know were i can get any clomid.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
It is better to start 1-AD cycle just a bit late (with respect of HST) rather than early, because that way, you will be sure that the heaviest lifting phase of HST will coincide with the "growth surge" brought about via 1-AD. Remember, you can always extend HST.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It shouldnt really matter if i am in the heaviest phase as long as im getting Mechanical Load heavy enough to induce muscle hypertrophy and since i am deconditioned that should start at the begining of the 10's cycle right:?
1-AD's power kicks in after 2 - 4 weeks. So, you probably should synchronize the start of 10's minicycle of HST with the start of your 1-AD and 4-AD cycle. So when you are doing 5's and negatives, you should feel the strength gains at the heaviest loads. In other words, when your body begins to respond to 1-AD, you will be at the "growth" phase of HST.
For some people, 1-AD kicks in faster; if your are one of those folks, you probably want to delay starting to take 1-AD until you start the second week of 10's. If you are one of those folks for whom 1-AD kicks in slower, I'd start 1-AD at the start of the second week of 15's.
============================================
Keeping most gains:
I'd say you need to taper off 1-AD. This is somewhat painstaking, but you need to gradually take less and less of it. Near the end of your cycle, take 700 mg for three days, 600 for the next three, 500 for the next three, so on until you are weaned off.
As you taper off, however, you need to keep lifting heavy. So, your HST cycle may be extended beyone 8 weeks.
I do not think clomid therapy is necesary; if you want to take that route -- well, I know very little about it, so you should do some research on the topic.
===========================================
It is better to start 1-AD cycle just a bit late (with respect of HST) rather than early, because that way, you will be sure that the heaviest lifting phase of HST will coincide with the "growth surge" brought about via 1-AD. Remember, you can always extend HST.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
1-AD's power kicks in after 2 - 4 weeks. So, you probably should synchronize the start of 10's minicycle of HST with the start of your 1-AD and 4-AD cycle. So when you are doing 5's and negatives, you should feel the strength gains at the heaviest loads. In other words, when your body begins to respond to 1-AD, you will be at the "growth" phase of HST.
For some people, 1-AD kicks in faster; if your are one of those folks, you probably want to delay starting to take 1-AD until you start the second week of 10's. If you are one of those folks for whom 1-AD kicks in slower, I'd start 1-AD at the start of the second week of 15's.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I am thinking at the beging of the 10's would be my best bet.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
I'd say you need to taper off 1-AD. This is somewhat painstaking, but you need to gradually take less and less of it. Near the end of your cycle, take 700 mg for three days, 600 for the next three, 500 for the next three, so on until you are weaned off.
As you taper off, however, you need to keep lifting heavy. So, your HST cycle may be extended beyone 8 weeks.
I do not think clomid therapy is necesary; if you want to take that route -- well, I know very little about it, so you should do some research on the topic.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Im not to sure about the tapering off thing. I mean I could see taking the whole dosage of 1 AD as you slowly taper it off like first thing in the moring so it wouldnt keep distrubing you natural LH release that occurs at night. I dont know were i can get any clomid.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
It is better to start 1-AD cycle just a bit late (with respect of HST) rather than early, because that way, you will be sure that the heaviest lifting phase of HST will coincide with the "growth surge" brought about via 1-AD. Remember, you can always extend HST.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It shouldnt really matter if i am in the heaviest phase as long as im getting Mechanical Load heavy enough to induce muscle hypertrophy and since i am deconditioned that should start at the begining of the 10's cycle right:?
virtualcyber
New Member
Hi
> It shouldnt really matter if i am in the heaviest phase as
> long as im getting Mechanical Load heavy enough to
> induce muscle hypertrophy and since i am deconditioned
> that should start at the begining of the 10's cycle right:?
You are right.
BTW, I know that you are skeptical about tapering off -- but you need to do something to prevent a 1-AD crash. If you don't taper it, then you need a bridging substance. Lewellyn has recommended some stuff ... but I don't remember what.
Remember to take all precautions, including Nizorall shampoo.
> It shouldnt really matter if i am in the heaviest phase as
> long as im getting Mechanical Load heavy enough to
> induce muscle hypertrophy and since i am deconditioned
> that should start at the begining of the 10's cycle right:?
You are right.
BTW, I know that you are skeptical about tapering off -- but you need to do something to prevent a 1-AD crash. If you don't taper it, then you need a bridging substance. Lewellyn has recommended some stuff ... but I don't remember what.
Remember to take all precautions, including Nizorall shampoo.
virtualcyber
New Member
I have the name wrong in the previous post -- the name of recommender is William Llewellyn.
Ephedrine/clenbuterol: It is possible that the beta agonist activities of these drugs may assist in recovery. Personally, I do recommend the use of ephedrine post-cycle to those who can use it. Clenbuterol has the same effect but acts around the clock, having a longer half life, and allowing a higher effective dose (amount times potency) due to having less relative effect on beta receptors in the heart. I am not sure that clenbuterol has any better effect with regard to recovery though.
Oral AAS: These do not assist recovery of natural testosterone production, but if used only in the morning, can help sustain muscle mass while in the recovery phase, with little or no adverse effect on recovery. <---Thats were I got the Idea of just using the oral 1-ad in the morning until your nads get going again.
Tribulus: If this is of benefit, I have not been able to observe it myself. I have only tried the Tribestan brand, but this is the brand that earned tribulus its reputation.
Melatonin: While disrupted sleep patterns definitely inhibit recovery, I have seen no evidence that taking melatonin at night speeds recovery. It is useful though for those who have allowed their sleep patterns to be disrupted and who wish to reset their natural clocks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oral AAS: These do not assist recovery of natural testosterone production, but if used only in the morning, can help sustain muscle mass while in the recovery phase, with little or no adverse effect on recovery. <---Thats were I got the Idea of just using the oral 1-ad in the morning until your nads get going again.
Tribulus: If this is of benefit, I have not been able to observe it myself. I have only tried the Tribestan brand, but this is the brand that earned tribulus its reputation.
Melatonin: While disrupted sleep patterns definitely inhibit recovery, I have seen no evidence that taking melatonin at night speeds recovery. It is useful though for those who have allowed their sleep patterns to be disrupted and who wish to reset their natural clocks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (jb1309 @ June 04 2002,2:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ephedrine/clenbuterol: It is possible that the beta agonist activities of these drugs may assist in recovery. Personally, I do recommend the use of ephedrine post-cycle to those who can use it. Clenbuterol has the same effect but acts around the clock, having a longer half life, and allowing a higher effective dose (amount times potency) due to having less relative effect on beta receptors in the heart. I am not sure that clenbuterol has any better effect with regard to recovery though.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Interesting info. I have never heard that about ephedrine and was wondering if you could point me in the direction of your source. I am doing a 1-AD cycle right now so I would like to find out what dosing protocol is recomended for the ephedrine post cycle. Thanks!
In response to tapering off:
Actually Bill Llewellyn has said that he feels tapering off is not a good idea and could actually have a negative effect. I forget where I read this but it may have been in a thread over at ellite, I will see if I can find it.
Interesting info. I have never heard that about ephedrine and was wondering if you could point me in the direction of your source. I am doing a 1-AD cycle right now so I would like to find out what dosing protocol is recomended for the ephedrine post cycle. Thanks!
In response to tapering off:
Actually Bill Llewellyn has said that he feels tapering off is not a good idea and could actually have a negative effect. I forget where I read this but it may have been in a thread over at ellite, I will see if I can find it.
Blood&Iron
New Member
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (=w= @ June 04 2002,3:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Actually Bill Llewellyn has said that he feels tapering off is not a good idea and could actually have a negative effect. I forget where I read this but it may have been in a thread over at ellite, I will see if I can find it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I was about to post the same thing. Yeah, it was over at Elite.
I was about to post the same thing. Yeah, it was over at Elite.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (jb1309 @ June 05 2002,12:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">First day on 1-AD .. And its giving me a little gas and stomach discomfort this time... didnt do that last time.. Maybe i got a better batch of 1-ad this time... woooooooooowho!!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Are you taking it with food?
Are you taking it with food?
>How much did you gain on your first go around?
I used 1-AD while dieting last time and it seemed to help me hold onto more muscle than with out.
>Also what is the difference between 1-AD and 1- test? And >thanks for the gass update!
1-AD is the precursor to 17beta-hydroxy-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one (1-testosterone) and 1-testosterone is an actual steroid that for now is legal to sale as a dietary supplement.
I got my bottle of ONE+ from http://www.avantlabs.com two days after I started taking my 1-AD and 4-ad so I switched over to the ONE+. 12 squirts twice a day. My calories are well above maint. Still following my normal HST cycle just increased the volume. I started out 170 on my Tanita scale weighed in the morning and now im 176. Most of its probably water. Once my ONE+ is gone im switch back over to 1-ad and andro spray for the last part of the 6 weeks cycle. I will let everybody know how I come out.
I used 1-AD while dieting last time and it seemed to help me hold onto more muscle than with out.
>Also what is the difference between 1-AD and 1- test? And >thanks for the gass update!
1-AD is the precursor to 17beta-hydroxy-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one (1-testosterone) and 1-testosterone is an actual steroid that for now is legal to sale as a dietary supplement.
I got my bottle of ONE+ from http://www.avantlabs.com two days after I started taking my 1-AD and 4-ad so I switched over to the ONE+. 12 squirts twice a day. My calories are well above maint. Still following my normal HST cycle just increased the volume. I started out 170 on my Tanita scale weighed in the morning and now im 176. Most of its probably water. Once my ONE+ is gone im switch back over to 1-ad and andro spray for the last part of the 6 weeks cycle. I will let everybody know how I come out.
Muscle Monthly
New Member
Which 1-AD are you guys using (supertech or ergopharm)?
Virtualcyber,
Two questions:
1) If 1AD does not kick in untill (say) week 3. Does one hold off on the 4AD spray untill the 1AD kicks in? Or Does one start them both at the same time?
2) Isn't Nizoral Shampoo for dandruff? Wouldn't one rather take an anti hair loss Shampoo?
Just trying to learn,
Thanks for your help,
Bob
Two questions:
1) If 1AD does not kick in untill (say) week 3. Does one hold off on the 4AD spray untill the 1AD kicks in? Or Does one start them both at the same time?
2) Isn't Nizoral Shampoo for dandruff? Wouldn't one rather take an anti hair loss Shampoo?
Just trying to learn,
Thanks for your help,
Bob
virtualcyber
New Member
Hi Bob
(1) That is something I have not observed too often. Most threads I have read indicate that 4-AD is stacked with 1-AD at the same time. (If I may speculate, even though 1-AD does not "kick in", it is probably still working -- so it makes sense 4-AD is used at the same time).
On the other hand, I did see folks who start on 4-AD a few weeks after 1-AD. So, I dunno. Personally, I'd stick with the usual.
(2) You are right -- Nizorall shampoo is indeed anti-dandruff. It just has the ingredient (I forget its long chemical name) that inhibits DHT, which causes male baldness. And yes, you can probably take other anti hair loss shampoo which are better at inhibiting DHT. (My memory is weak, so you probably want to verify all this). I used Nizorall because Patrick Arnold (who made 1-AD) recommended it.
I was getting somewhat paranoid, so I kept trying to make sure that the shampoo stayed on my head as long as I was in the shower, for maximum absorption!!
=============================
Let us know of your results. Stats, etc., as usual
(1) That is something I have not observed too often. Most threads I have read indicate that 4-AD is stacked with 1-AD at the same time. (If I may speculate, even though 1-AD does not "kick in", it is probably still working -- so it makes sense 4-AD is used at the same time).
On the other hand, I did see folks who start on 4-AD a few weeks after 1-AD. So, I dunno. Personally, I'd stick with the usual.
(2) You are right -- Nizorall shampoo is indeed anti-dandruff. It just has the ingredient (I forget its long chemical name) that inhibits DHT, which causes male baldness. And yes, you can probably take other anti hair loss shampoo which are better at inhibiting DHT. (My memory is weak, so you probably want to verify all this). I used Nizorall because Patrick Arnold (who made 1-AD) recommended it.
I was getting somewhat paranoid, so I kept trying to make sure that the shampoo stayed on my head as long as I was in the shower, for maximum absorption!!
=============================
Let us know of your results. Stats, etc., as usual