12's and 8's Intermediate

T

Taste Of Fire

New Member
I'm an intermediate lifter (going to bulk next months). I am lifting for a few years now (not always optimal). I made a quick program based on the thoughts of other knowlegdeable forummembers.

The idea is to run 3 week cycles:
- First 3 weeks with 12 reps
- second 3 weeks with 8 reps

Every week I want to increase te load by 5%. After 6 weeks I want to start pushing beyond my previous maxes. I have doubts about the volume of a program like that. I made a concept (see below). Can you please help me out to have a good starting point? Thanks a lot!

UB - Monday:
- Benchpress 3x12 - 4x8
- Cable row 3x12 - 4x8
- DB Shoulder press 2x12 - 3x8
- Pull-ups 2x12 - 3x8
- Lateral Side raise 2x12 - 3x8

LB - Tuesday:
- Squat 3x12 - 4x8
- RDL 3x12 - 4x8
- Leg Extension 2x12 - 3x8
- Leg Curl 2x12 - 3x8
- Calves 3X12 - 4x8
- Calves Seated 2x12 - 3x8

UB - Thursday:
- Incline Benchpress 3x12 - 4x8
- BOR 3x12 - 4x8
- Dips 2x12 - 3x8
- Chin-ups 2x12 - 3x8
- Lateral Side Raise 2x12 - 3x8

LB - Friday:
- RDL 3x12 - 4x8
- Leg Press 3x12 - 4x8
- Leg Curl 2x12 - 3x8
- Leg Extension 2x12 - 3x8
- Calves 3x12 - 4x8
- Calves Seated 2x12 - 3x8

Would this program be in balance this way? Not too much (or too little) volume? Please share your thoughts. It will help me a lot! Thanks again!

Some non-impressive personal stats:
- Bodyfat 11/12%
- Squat 8x120 KG
- Bench 7x90 KG
- Deadlift 5x150 KG
 
Hi. It seems like a balanced programme. Id probably skip delt raises while cutting and do shoulder press twice. Perhaps do a close grip bench press/skull crushers so you target triceps twice per week.
 
Thanks for your reply! I am not cutting. I want to start a bulk. My delts also get hit with benchpress and incline benchpress. I could do that, but I'd rather focus on bigger musclegroups. Shoulders and upperarms are always going well. So no real need for special attention.

Any thoughts about the volume? Should I start at a lower volume?
 
That's a lot of volume, but only you can know if it's too much or not. Volume tolerance is highly variable and varies among individuals. It also depends in what your body us adapted too. If you've trained with high volume recently, you will be fine. Otherwise you might have to build up to it, or scale back. Overtraining signals are pretty obvious.
 
Thanks for the feedback! I've done different training programs over the past year(s). Also with different volumes. My last training routine was a HST program outlined on the HST website (fullbody 3 times per week). It's too much for me. On de the second week of the fives I was getting overtraining (wrong word probably) symptons. Pain in shoulders, elbows, lowerarms. I also did the GBR (Generic Bulking Routine) of Lyle McDonald before. Made some gains, but not so much. It did give me more gains than HST (3 times per week) did. So now I'm actually looking for the combination of those 2 training programs. Would it be wise to start at a lower volume? If so, what volume would you suggest?Thanks again!
 
krysix said:
is 3x12, 2xweek a lot of volume? I doubt it.
Click to expand...

It is when you are doing 11 exercises for the whole body. 3x12x11=396 work reps, not including warmup sets. It is good for an intermediate/advanced lifter.... Probably too much for a beginner, a probably too much for someone already advanced and already very strong.

I think it's a good amount of volume to maximize hypertrophy at his stage of training. I wouldn't do more than that though...
 
Each muscle worked twice per week? That means five days per week you are doing nothing to stimulate growth. It might work well for some but not for me. I need each muscle to be stimulated a minimum of every other day. Volume is secondary and very individual.

However, if I were to do an U/L split twice per week, yours is as good as I have seen although you put too much emphasis on calves IMO.
 
11 exercises? its an upper/lower routine with 5 exercises on monday for upper and another 5 on thursday, I really don't get your point. If thats too much volume I should be overtrained since the first day in the gym. I guess we disagree, I use a lot of volume in my routines and never had problems, I did 7xweek full body with 30 myo reps per day per muscle group and had 0 problems, but I guess not everybody have the same work capacity.
 
Thanks for all the input. I really appreciate.

I have genetically bad calves. So I thought it would be wise to do a little extra for it.

I also read a lot on the HST site/forum/book and the Lyle McDonald's website/forum/books. I basicly see most people agreeing on an upperbody/lowerbody split (twice per week) program for an intermediate lifter. I also found information about the volume. About 30 reps for upperbody and about 50/60 reps for lowerbody per work-out (Lyle says 40-60 reps per musclegroup). I wanted to put this all together in a HST-based program. So I am planning to use SD and to use more weight over time. This is basicly what I came up with.

Still a lot of different opinions in this topic gives me doubts. Would this be a good starting point, or did I miss something?
 
You'll always get a lot of different opinions, very rarely will the exact same routine work for everyone.

From what I can see the only 2 points raised were:
1. Over focus on calf's
2. Potential over training from the volume,

Try it, get your diet spot on an keep a log commenting not only on your gains but overall health too (tiredness, mood etc). Only then will you know.
 
Thanks for the honest feedback. Seems very clear.

Would this much volume probably result in less development in the calves? If so, I need to do less. Calves are my weak points...

Can I start with this amount of volume and scale it back during my program when I find out it's too much?
 
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