15s the same as 5s for hypertrophy?

J

jdreich

New Member
Hi guys,

I just changed gyms and asked one "personal trainer" to help me with some details (plate and dumbell weights among other things) to set up my 12th cycle of HST.

He asked which was my objective, and I told him hypertrophy and I was doing HST (here in Chile nobody knows anything about it) and there are 2 weeks of 15s, 2 weeks of 10s and 4 weeks of 5s.

He told me: "Oh! that's an inverted pyramid scheme. You know, 15 reps can grow just as much muscle as 5 reps. We do 5 reps just as a way to save time. The muscle doesn't know the diference of reps. only stimulus".

I told him that doing sets with your 5RM was better for hypertrophy than 15s and he told that it's the same to do 1 set of 15 as 3 sets of 5s.

Can you help me with this argument?

Thanks,

JD
 
I think that would be true only if the load being used was the same. If it was, and you could do 15 reps with that particular weight then I'd imagine the growth stimulus to be very similar. Except, in HST the reason not to use 15 reps even if your in the 5 rep block is to reduce exhaustion and fatigue.
 
if he is refering to doing one continuous set of 15 reps there is no way you would be able to use the heavier weight you could with 3 sets of 5. So no it's not the same.

Ask him to load his 5RM on a barbell and curl it 15 times non stop, then tell you it's the same.

As far as hypertrophy it isn't the same either. The metabolic signal with high reps do not produce the same effect as high load.
 
Dkm,

He knows that you lift more weight (heavier weights :) ) with the 5s but anyway, he says that for hypertrophy it's the same.

Maybe he doesn't know (and I can't explain it properly to him either) why lifting heavier weights is better for hypertrophy than lower weights with more repetitions.

JD
 
Try this, print this out from the FAQ and have him read it.

Short summary

In order of importance:

1) Satellite cells must be activated, differentiated, and fuse with existing fibers, donating their nuclei.

2) Mechanical stress must be transmitted to the sarcolemma (mechanotransduction) and contractile protein structures within the sarcomeres. This will trigger focal adhesion kinases (FAK) that in turn initiate the downstream signaling events leading to an increase in the contractile and cytoskeletal protein expression/synthesis.

3) pH and oxidative stress must be acutely increased within the muscle fiber.

Focusing just on the workout, this pretty much sums it up. If #1 doesn’t happen, you will not grow…ever. If number two doesn’t happen, you will grow a little, but you will soon reach the limits of the sarcoplasmic/nuclear ratio and growth will stop. If #3 doesn’t happen, you will still grow quite significantly, but the rate of growth might be enhanced or facilitated if #3 is achieved.

#1 is achieved when a certain level of microtrauma is experienced by the fibers. This is brought about by load, eccentric contractions, and to a much lesser extent, hypoxia (A.K.A. #3) When load, eccentric contractions and #3 occur, each fiber will produce and release muscle specific-IGF-1 (sometimes called mechano-growth factor) The IGF-1 in turn seeps out of leaky sarcolemmas and acts on nescient satellite cells to initiate #1. Microtrauma is rapidly reduced from workout to workout (Repeated bout effect) thereby limiting the effectiveness of any given load to induce further hypertrophy.

#2 is achieved by loading a muscle that is actively contracting.

#3 is achieved by contracting a muscle (doing reps) until you create an oxygen deficit and subsequent hypoxic byproducts (e.g. lactate and oxygen radicals).

The afore mentioned physiological principles of muscle growth are what we follow in order to ensure that 1,2 and 3 happen.

The difference between 1 and 3 is what you are asking, I think.
 
Dkm,

Thanks, very, very helpful.

The thing is, I don't want him to use:

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
#3 is achieved by contracting a muscle (doing reps) until you create an oxygen deficit and subsequent hypoxic byproducts (e.g. lactate and oxygen radicals).
Click to expand...

As to say: "See? You can achieve this with higher reps also".

JD

PS: Maybe I should just stop arguing with him and mind my own business, but I want to try to teach him, since he'll be "helping" other clients of the gym.
 
Have him read this again as it is crucial to understanding why growth occurs.
Focusing just on the workout, this pretty much sums it up. If #1 doesn’t happen, you will not grow…ever. If number two doesn’t happen, you will grow a little, but you will soon reach the limits of the sarcoplasmic/nuclear ratio and growth will stop.
There are two ways to grow and even though he can grow by doing high reps, his growth will not be as dramatic if he doesn't utilize no. 2.
If he can't or more truthfully won't comprehend this then you might just be wasting your time. Remember you can't make a leopard change his spots.
 
Sounds like the trainer is viewing reps vs. load in terms of "momentary fatigue=growth stimulus." That's the standard model for HITers, but many trainers in general who prefer failure training.

cheers,
Jules
 
He might also being going back to the whole sarcoplasmic hypertrophy thing.

Which if he does brings that up just reintroduce
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]If number two doesn’t happen, you will grow a little, but you will soon reach the limits of the sarcoplasmic/nuclear ratio and growth will stop.
Click to expand...
Now if he isn't natural, AAS can shift this ratio (in his favor) dramatically.
 
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