Alternate-day PSMF

Discussion in 'Diet & Nutrition' started by imported_edziu, May 31, 2003.

  1. OK, I'm on another wacky diet, and I may stay on this one for a long time. I'm sure most of you have heard of Caloric Restriction for increasing health and decreasing the effects of aging. . . and a recent thread here at the HST forums brought up the recent study results on Alternate-day fasting. Summarized: Alternate-day fasting gave most of the benefits of CR, without reducing bodyweight more than a small fraction. (AD-Fasting mice consumed no calories on fasting days, but on eating days, they voluntarily consumed about twice as many calories as control mice. CR mice only grew to about half the size of control mice, while AD-Fasting mice grew to about 95% of normal size.)

    I've adopted a form of this diet; I've been doing an alternate-day PSMF for 3.5 weeks now. On a fasting day, I consume about 600 calories, mostly protein; this is primarily intended to inhibit muscle wasting. On feasting days, I eat anything and everything I want. I find that I habitually eat more than is comfortable. I put absolutely no limits on what I allow, either; desserts, sugary foods, fatty foods, anything goes.

    I've grown accustomed to the diet. On my fasting days, I don't really get hungry and more. At first, I would get a little light-headed in the afternoons, but that is gone. I find it easier to relax and easier to concentrate.

    On feasting days, I get very hungry if I don't eat every few hours. That's rare, though, as I eat plenty! I have more energy on feasting days. I find it easier to mentally multi-task, but harder to focus on a single task; I get distracted more readily.

    My bodyweight has been virtually unchanged. The morning after a feasting day, I come in at 223. The morning after a fasting day, I come in at 220; this pattern was established from day one. (Lowest morning so far, 219 three days ago. Highest morning, today, 225.)

    Performance in workouts seems good; I've lifted on both feasting and fasting days. On a feasting day, I get much hotter and sweatier during the workout. On a fasting day, I tend to run much cooler, but I still hit my expected targets as if I were feasting. I don't think I'm every getting glycogen depleted. On a feasting day, I'll feel energetic after a workout; on a fasting day, it's neutral as if I never worked out.

    I still have me pre- and post- workout protein shakes; of course, on a fasting day, that's about a third of my day's calories.

    So that's what I've been doing. Feel free to comment, react, abuse my ridiculous ideas, etc.

    Now to the question we can bounce around:

    From a hypertrophy standpoint, when is it best to lift? On a feast day? A fast day? Early or late? (I tend to lift late.)

    On the one hand, working out on the morning of a feast day lets my muscle recover with the benefit of lots of nutrients all day. Then again, the fast the next day is a rude crash.

    On the other hand, working out on the evening of a fast day lets the next 24 hours be a time of extreme plenty -- except, of course, the critical 4 hours after the workout itself.

    Perhaps I can try setting the feast and fast not by days/sleep, but by workouts. I can start the feast immediately after a workout, continue for 24 hours, and then fast until my next workout. I prefer the idea of daily feasting/fasting, though; the 8 hours of sleep before and after a fasting day extend the fasting period by 16 hours, and I suspect that's significant.

    Ideas?
     
  2. Aaron_F

    Aaron_F New Member

    From a small amount of research I ahve seen comparing timing of post workout food and muscle growth, it would be best to do the training on the feasting days, potentially early or towards midday. To allow some glycogen formation in the muscles to give training a good shot.

    settled on the off days, cannot focus on the on days.
    I know that feeling
     
  3. restless

    restless New Member

    I've been negotiating going on a similar protocol and when I start it I'll do the overfeeding for the 24 hours after my workout, period which might not coincide with one single day, and then fast for the next 24 hours till right after my workout.

    Are you getting double mantenance calories on feasting days?
     
  4. I'm not sure about my calories on the feasting days, because I'm eating so much random food. It's hard to get counts for a treat from a bakery (just had a kick-a$$ apple turnover), or eating at an Indian restaurant, or pierogi and cake at my mom's, or a bunch of eggrolls and fried batata at my other mom's. So I've only been counting (via fitday) for my fasting days; on feast, I'm just stuffing myself. I'd have to guess I'm over 4000 when feasting, though -- which is not yet double maintenance for me, but I'm feeling awfully stuffed. On the other hand, I'm not doing total fast for the other 24; I'm getting about 600.

    I seem to crave more carb-laden food than anything else on feast days; I feel that I'm getting a good glycogen loadup, even when I'm lifting on fasting days.
     
  5. micmic

    micmic New Member

    I'm doing something similar but I fast & feast during the same day. I sleep at 1: 00 am and eat only 300 kcal or so until 14: 00 pm of the next day, then I workout and pig out for 9-10 hours until I sleep. Last week the average daily consumption was 4100 kcal, from which all but 300 were eaten during the 9-10 hours before & after workouts. I burn a daily average of 200 kcals on HIIT and soccer, so this leaves me with 4100-200 = 3900 kcals per day. My alleged maintenace (workout calories & increased BMR included) is 2500 kcal, so I am supposedly getting 1400 above that. Funny thing is that during that last week I gained only a insignificant amount of weight, 100-200gr which could very well be measuring error. Same results for the week before the last one. I don't know whether it is the HIIT, the fasting/ feasting or the 5 days per week workouts, but it is certainly very interesting...
     

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