Another newbie joins the fold.

Discussion in 'Basic Training Principles and Methods' started by Surfrider, Feb 12, 2007.

  1. Surfrider

    Surfrider New Member

    Introduction
    Howdy! My name is Dutch, I'm a 27 year-old skinny white dude from the Pacific Northwest, and this is my first post here at the HST forums!

    I've been into fitness as long as I can remember, and have been doing resistance training of some sort or another since junior high. However, my sports (Olympic-style Taekwondo for competition, and MMA for fun) favor those with speed, agility, and endurance, so I have always trained with the goal of having a lower mass, an high strength-to-mass ratio, and above all else, excellent endurance. To that end, I have always done a lot of low weight/high rep sets, and lots of body-weight plyometrics. This has left me with a low bodyfat and good definition, but compared to some of you freaks, I'm still pretty skinny; 5'11", 165lbs, and around 10% bf.

    However, because of some recent changes in my athletic pursuits, and and my lifestyle (and, I'm not gonna lie; it's also partly because I want to look good for my woman!), my priorities have changed some. I want to bulk up a bit, and once I've grown to a size I'm happy with, work to increase my strength without increasing my mass. Ultimately I want to look like a slightly bulked-up swimmer or gymnast; cut and well-defined with just enough mass to make it obvious that I lift.

    It was researching how to best go about achieving these goals that led me here to the HST forums, and man am I glad I found this place; there's a LOT of excellent information here! I know with a little input from you folks, I'll be hitting harder with both with my opponents, AND with my girlfriend (if you get my drift)! [​IMG]


    My (Tentative) Workout
    Although I've read the main HST guides, and the important forum threads (like "Simplify and Win, and so forth"), there's still some things I could use some guidance with. Currently my plan looks like this (alternating between A and B every other workout):

    Monday/Wednesday/Friday
    A:
    Deadlifts
    Pull-Ups
    Chest Dips
    Arnold Press
    <s>Preacher Curl</s> Incline Dumbbell Curl
    *
    B:
    Squats
    Bent-Over Row
    Incline Bench
    Military Press
    <s>Concentration Curl</s> Skullcrushers
    **

    Tuesday-Thursday-Saturday
    Abs (?)
    Light Cardio (Martial Arts)
    Stretching



    Questions

    I tried to design both A and B to work the same muscle groups with the same intensity, but I'm not sure if I was 100% successful. For example, I don't believe the Deadlifts in Routine A will work the legs as much as the Squats in Routine B. Should I toss a set of, say, Lunges in there to make sure the legs get hit hard enough every time?

    Routine A hits the back pretty well, with Deadlifts taking care of the lower back, and Bent-Over Rows working the upper back, but what about Routine B? Will the Bent-Over Rows be enough, or should I consider throwing in a set of Back Extensions/Hyper Extensions/Whatchamacallits?

    The biceps are &quot;showboat&quot; muscles, and the glutes are &quot;girl getters,&quot; so they're both pretty important to me. Unfortunately for me, they are also the only two parts of my body that seem genetically predisposed to be undersized! I tossed in a set of curls at the end of each routine to make sure the biceps get hit hard, but what about the glutes? I never really feel anything back there when I'm doing Squats or Deadliftss, so should I think about a set of ass-isolating exercises (like the Lunges mentioned above), or just wait and see how things go?

    Lastly, a solid midsection is really important to me because I take a lot of shots to the gut (and besides, chicks dig abs, right?). Currently, all I do is crunches and regular ol' Sit-Ups while my training partner whacks me in the gut with a rattan stick between reps (the though may make you go &quot;WTF?!,&quot; but it really helps toughen up your gut, adn helps you learn to take blows better!). I know cable crunches are pretty critical, but what else I should be doing for a complete ab workout? The forum doesn't seem to have much information about ab development.

    That's it for now! I know that's a lot of typing, and a lot of questions, but if you guys would be kind enough to help me out, I'd really appreciate it!

    Thanks!

    -Surfrider






    * Thanks, Colby2152!
    ** Thanks, Etothepii!
     
  2. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    Your routine looks good. Bent rows are very hard on the lower back...all of your concerns actually are unecessary. You will work the whole body quite well on that routine!

    Squats and deads work the glutes heavily even if you don't feel it. The best way to work the glutes is to squat deep. If you are only going to parallel then you will mainly work the quadriceps and hamstrings. Once you get strong enough on the deadlift you will feel it all over (entire back, thighs, calves, abs, etc.). In the beginning you will only feel it in your weak areas. For me it is hamstrings and deadlifts are bringing them up nicely.
    Also heavy compounds like squats, etc. will work the abs very hard...no need for other exercises in my opinion. But others do ab isolations.
     
  3. I've done a routine a lot like that, and it worked out well. I would say that on workout B, you could do skull crushers instead of curls. Then, your geting bi's and tri's every other workout.
     
  4. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

  5. Surfrider

    Surfrider New Member

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The best way to work the glutes is to squat deep. If you are only going to parallel then you will mainly work the quadriceps and hamstrings.</div>
    Am I correct that, by &quot;parallel,&quot; you mean squatting just deep enough to bring one's upper thighs parallel with the floor, bending the knees to about 90 degrees? And by &quot;squat deep&quot; you mean bending your knees past 90 degrees? If so, I've always been under the impression that bending your knees past 90 degrees in a squat is hard on the joints...? Or perhaps I've misunderstood...?




    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I would say that on workout B, you could do skull crushers instead of curls. Then, your geting bi's and tri's every other workout.</div>
    Thanks very much for the feedback; this is exactly what I need! [​IMG]

    Just so I can have a better understanding of the principles here, would you mind explaining this suggestion a bit more? The reason I ask is this: when I was assembling my workout, I tried to to make sure the various muscles got worked to the same degree each time... Routine A currently hits the biceps with Pull-Ups (palms facing out...am I using the correct name for this exercise?) and the Curls, whilst the triceps are worked by the Dips and the Arnold Press. Routine B, as is, hits the biceps with the Bent-Over Row, and the Curls. The triceps get some love from the Bench Press, and the Military Press.

    To my layman's eye, this seems pretty balanced, but perhaps I am overestimating the work the last two Presses will put on the triceps, or underestimating how hard the other exercised will stress the biceps....? I certainly don't want to be one of those guys who does too many curls and ends up with disproportionate upper arms!

    I appreciate the feedback very much, but if you wouldn't mind elaborating a bit, I'd really appreciate it; I'm one of those guys who likes to know how everything works!

    Thanks again.
     
  6. Surfrider

    Surfrider New Member

    I just thought of a couple more questions:

    First, while the lower portions of my pectorals are in decent shape, the upper portions (the clavicular head, and the upper half of the sternal head) are pretty pathetic. Is there anything I can/should do to tweak my exercises to encourage the upper part of these muscles to develop faster, or am I just stuck with what my momma gave me (i.e., it's my genetics so live with it)?

    Secondly, should I consider doing any forearm isolation exercises on my rest/cardio/ab days, or am I worrying too much about various parts not getting the attention they deserve?

    Again, thanks for entertaining all my questions. Not only do I appreciate it, but I'll make sure to pass the favor/help/information on to another hapless newbie that crosses my path sometime in the future.
     
  7. Fausto

    Fausto HST Expert

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If so, I\'ve always been under the impression that bending your knees past 90 degrees in a squat is hard on the joints...? Or perhaps I\'ve misunderstood...?</div>

    No You did not! Most of us believe in ATG (Ass to the Grass) squats, some don\'t but the problem with the joints is worst with parallel squats specially because of the reverse motion half way, whereas with ATG if you don\'t bounce the torque is transferred to the hamstrings.

    Your set up is perfect, just include the skulls as per Eto.

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">First, while the lower portions of my pectorals are in decent shape, the upper portions (the clavicular head, and the upper half of the sternal head) are pretty pathetic.</div>

    Slight incline for the bench press and dips take care of this.

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Secondly, should I consider doing any forearm isolation exercises on my rest/cardio/ab days, or am I worrying too much about various parts not getting the attention they deserve?</div>

    Yah, worrying too dang much!
     
  8. colby2152

    colby2152 New Member

    Surfrider,

    You are one of the most educated newbies I have ever seen come on this board...

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">First, while the lower portions of my pectorals are in decent shape, the upper portions (the clavicular head, and the upper half of the sternal head) are pretty pathetic. Is there anything I can/should do to tweak my exercises to encourage the upper part of these muscles to develop faster, or am I just stuck with what my momma gave me (i.e., it's my genetics so live with it)?</div>

    We have argued on this board about it a while back in a thread that one of the Joes started. You could try different exercises to see if they hit different areas such as an incline bench and dips like Fausto mentioned.

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Secondly, should I consider doing any forearm isolation exercises on my rest/cardio/ab days, or am I worrying too much about various parts not getting the attention they deserve? </div>

    You have deadlifts for your forearms.

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The reason I ask is this: when I was assembling my workout, I tried to to make sure the various muscles got worked to the same degree each time...</div>

    If you want to hit your biceps, then stick to a compound exercise such as Close-Grip Chins, but you already have Pull-Ups in Workout A. You can always try pulley crunches which hit your abs, back, and arms. My favorite isolation for biceps has to be incline DB curls.

    Looks good though... let us know when you start!
     
  9. Surfrider

    Surfrider New Member

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">You are one of the most educated newbies I have ever seen come on this board...</div>
    Thanks for the compliment, but you're not entirely correct. When I came to this board, the only thing I really knew how to do was to use the &quot;Search&quot; function, and how *not* to ask questions without trying to find the answer for myself first. [​IMG]

    And actually....can I got off on a little rant/tangent for a sec? I know I'm not the only one who can't stand people who want to be spoon-fed everything; if they don't want to put out the effort to find the information, why should I/we put out the effort to feed it to them? I am continually amazed by the countless idiots in countless fora across the 'net who insist on asking the same questions countless times over when the answers can be easily had from a countless number of sources. Maybe growing up in the technical circles that I did conditioned me to think for myself a bit more? I don't know.

    Last thing before I put my soapbox away; though it was written by, and for computer &quot;hackers,&quot; the venerable &quot;How to Ask Questions the Smart Way&quot; is a document that is relevant to EVERY subject, and I truly believe that EVERYBODY should be forced to read (AND understand!) before they're allowed 'net access, much less allowed to register for this, or any other forum! Oh the Utopia this 'net could be...



    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">We have argued on this board about it a while back in a thread that one of the Joes started. You could try different exercises to see if they hit different areas such as an incline bench and dips like Fausto mentioned.</div>
    I missed that thread the first time around, but I just got done reading it; good info there. I'm definitely going to make sure I incorporate that incline.


    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">My favorite isolation for biceps has to be incline DB curls.</div>
    I tried this exercise at the gym this morning; I think I see why you like it. The motion seemes more &quot;natural&quot; to my geometry, and seems to put less awkward strain on my elbows and shoulders. I do believe I'll be adopting this movement for my own!


    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Looks good though... let us know when you start!</div>
    Oh man, I'm so stoked! I should finish determining my maximums by the end of this weekend, and in the SD phase leading up to my first cycle, I am going to take &quot;before&quot; measurements and pictures, and set up a log to track my progress each week, finishing with a set of &quot;after&quot; shots and measurements at the end of the first cycle. I'll toss y'all a link when I get everything set up.

    Oh man, I can't wait to be a badass! [​IMG]
     
  10. colby2152

    colby2152 New Member

    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Oh man, I'm so stoked! I should finish determining my maximums by the end of this weekend, and in the SD phase leading up to my first cycle, I am going to take &quot;before&quot; measurements and pictures, and set up a log to track my progress each week, finishing with a set of &quot;after&quot; shots and measurements at the end of the first cycle. I'll toss y'all a link when I get everything set up.

    Oh man, I can't wait to be a badass! </div>

    Great, just great... Just remember to eat properly. Here are two of my posts in the &quot;What's your take?&quot; thread by JonPaul regarding calorie counting and your diet.

    There are a lot of equations out there, but anyone that is based off your bodyfat percentage will be the most accurate. I use the Katch-McArdle equation, but I have tailored it so the Activity Level is sedentary at 1.1; I then count up the calories I burned through the day from major exercises (walking, running, weightlifting, sports, and sex) and add them to my BMR for my TDEE total. I then balance this with the calories I count each and every day. If I am cutting, I underestimate my TDEE and overestimate the caloric intake. I do the inverse for a bulk. If my body's weight is not changing within the goals, I would make some minor adjustments to the TDEE equation by shifting it +/- 100 calories based on the weight I should be at.

    Whether you use an equation like Katch-McArdle, the calculator need2eat provided, or the bodyweight multipliers that are mentioned in the FAQ's; the same principals of estimation are constant:

    1) The more strict that you count, the less error you will have.
    2) It takes a few weeks to truely find your BMR.
    3) No estimate is ever 100% correct. This is why they are called estimates.

    Also, the idea of overstimating caloric intake / underestimating TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure) during a cut is commonly applied no matter what estimations you use.

    I hope all this has helped.

    I may just start a thread of my own regarding caloric intake in the diet section....
     
  11. Surfrider

    Surfrider New Member

    <div>
    (colby2152 @ Feb. 13 2007,17:52)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Oh man, I'm so stoked! I should finish determining my maximums by the end of this weekend, and in the SD phase leading up to my first cycle, I am going to take &quot;before&quot; measurements and pictures, and set up a log to track my progress each week, finishing with a set of &quot;after&quot; shots and measurements at the end of the first cycle. I'll toss y'all a link when I get everything set up.

    Oh man, I can't wait to be a badass! </div>

    Great, just great... Just remember to eat properly. Here are two of my posts in the &quot;What's your take?&quot; thread by JonPaul regarding calorie counting and your diet.

    There are a lot of equations out there, but anyone that is based off your bodyfat percentage will be the most accurate. I use the Katch-McArdle equation, but I have tailored it so the Activity Level is sedentary at 1.1; I then count up the calories I burned through the day from major exercises (walking, running, weightlifting, sports, and sex) and add them to my BMR for my TDEE total. I then balance this with the calories I count each and every day. If I am cutting, I underestimate my TDEE and overestimate the caloric intake. I do the inverse for a bulk. If my body's weight is not changing within the goals, I would make some minor adjustments to the TDEE equation by shifting it +/- 100 calories based on the weight I should be at.

    Whether you use an equation like Katch-McArdle, the calculator need2eat provided, or the bodyweight multipliers that are mentioned in the FAQ's; the same principals of estimation are constant:

    1) The more strict that you count, the less error you will have.
    2) It takes a few weeks to truely find your BMR.
    3) No estimate is ever 100% correct. This is why they are called estimates.

    Also, the idea of overstimating caloric intake / underestimating TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure) during a cut is commonly applied no matter what estimations you use.</div>
    <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I hope all this has helped.

    I may just start a thread of my own regarding caloric intake in the diet section....</div>
    Coincidentally, I stumbled across the &quot;What's your take?&quot; thread by searching for &quot;plyometrics&quot; the other day. And, yes, this is helpful information! Thank you.

    And I think you're right; you should start your own caloric intake thread. Such a thread would be a nice addition to the knowledge base. If you do however, be sure to give your thread a title that will make it easy to find with the search function.

    -Surfrider
     

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