1. Steve McDermott

    Steve McDermott New Member

    I have been taking arimidex .25mg EOD for a while now.  It works well for me even at that low dose.  The problem is that I am running out and I don't think I can get any more.  It's very expensive.  Does anyone know if there is anything out there that works as well or almost as well as arimidex?  

    I have tried Vitex in the past with some success.  I know there's "M" from Biotest amongst other things. Calcium D-glucarate has been mentioned before too.  I am looking for some thing that is fairly effective and won't cost a small fortune to buy.

    Steve
     
  2. virtualcyber

    virtualcyber New Member

    Liquidex (dissolved form of arimidex) is cheaper, but unfortunately, I believe it is prescription drug.
     
  3. Lil Popa Pump

    Lil Popa Pump New Member

    I have had to do a lot of research on the legal route since I cannot afford to have any run-ins with the law right now. Here are the best that I have come up with (not in any particular order):

    Vitex
    Calcium d-glucarate
    DIM
    5-AA

    Forget M, vitex and calcim d-glucarate can be had for very cheap.  Vitex is cheap enough at the local GNC and I have found 90caps of 500mg calcium d-glucarate for about $17 on-line.   DIM products are not too pricey.  5-AA is the priciest, and acts as a mild androgen as well as being anti-aromatase (so it is probably not the best thing to use coming off a PH/PS cycle).
     
  4. Steve McDermott

    Steve McDermott New Member

    Thanks guys.   I have taken Vitex before, but I'm not sure what the best product to take is.  

    Also, any info I've been able to dig up on he Ca d-glucarate is on it's anti cancer  properties.  I did find one abstract that dealt with breast cancer, but it showed benefits even in estrogen independent tumors.  I'm not familiar with the DIM products at all, so I'll check into that.  

    Steve
     
  5. Jon Stark

    Jon Stark New Member

    Steve, I was also considering diindolemethane (DIM) or indole-3-carbinol (I3C) as anti-estrogenic supplements. I found a piece Bryan wrote for Muscle Monthly on them.

    http://musclemonthly.com/article....nce.htm

    Also, there seems to be some controversy about whether you should use DIM or I3C. I didn't really delve too deeply into all that stuff.

    If you try one or the other (or both), it would be great to hear about their effectiveness.
     
  6. BArtyC

    BArtyC New Member

    I'm not right up on this stuff. Being from Australia but I have heard about some natural ones like Chrysin and Saw palmetto. [​IMG] . Maybe they would help.
     
  7. Steve McDermott

    Steve McDermott New Member

    Thanks Jon, I had read that a long time ago, and forgot about it. I will look into that more.


    Bartyc, I will ahve to check into the Chrysin, and I already take saw palmeto because taking ephedrine can cause BPH. Thanks for the suggestions.

    Steve
     
  8. Muscle Monthly

    Muscle Monthly New Member

    Pat Arnold is coming out with a new compound called 6-OXO. Pat claims that it blocks aromatase activity as well as stimulates LH.

    If this is true it will save a lot of bodybuilders money on arimidex and clomid. Ergopharm already has ads running for it in Flex.
     
  9. Bob Evans

    Bob Evans Member

    How long do you take that stuff? Do you cycle it? Are there side effects?
     
  10. Muscle Monthly

    Muscle Monthly New Member

    Email ErgoPharm.
     
  11. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson New Member

    I think that the "M" product by Biotest that you mentioned is a good one - it contains many of the ingredients mentioned above (Trihydroxystilbene, Tocotrienols, Calcium D-glucarate, and Vitex agnus-castus).
     
  12. Steve McDermott

    Steve McDermott New Member

    Thanks Chris, much appreciated.

    Steve
     
  13. Tatsuo

    Tatsuo New Member

    When I come off my Mag-10 cycle, I am going to take Chrysin and M.
     
  14. Muscle Monthly

    Muscle Monthly New Member

    Chrysin does nothing. It all has to do with bioavailability. Pat Arnold discovered it and he would be the first to say it does nothing.

    6-OXO will be available any day. Just wait for that.
     
  15. Morpheus

    Morpheus New Member

    I have also heard that Chrysin is not significantly bioavailable.

    However, there are those who claim that the mechanism that prevents significant bioavailability has been established and that the addition of Piperine should theoretically address the problem.

    Here is a relevant quote from the Smartbodyz site. Note that the use of the word "infers" constitutes a "leap of logic" for me and I am reluctant to accept the statement at face value:

    "In a study published in Biochemical Pharmacology (1999, Vol.58), the specific mechanisms of chrysin's absorption impairment were identified, which infers that the addition of a pepper extract (piperine) could significantly enhance the bioavailability of chrysin. Pilot studies have found that when chrysin is combined with piperine, reductions in serum estrogen (estradiol) and increases in total and free testosterone result in 30 days."
    http://www.smartbodyz.com/chrysin-2.htm

    The LEF (Life Extension Foundation) also promotes this view, however I feel that their perspective, in general, amounts to a quasi-scientific version of wishful thinking (i.e. if a supplement "might possibly work", then it "certainly does").

    I do not have the necessary biomedical background to distinguish whether the claim of increased Chrysin digestive bioavailability in the presence of Piperine is just another specious (i.e. "appealing, but false") promotional claim.

    Does anyone out there have the technical acumen to analyze this claim and comment on its likely validity?
     
  16. Lil Popa Pump

    Lil Popa Pump New Member

    What? You don't just read the abstract and conclusions and accept them as gospel!?!?!?!? I mean really, who need to actually analyze the entire study!!?!?!?!? ;)
     
  17. Morpheus

    Morpheus New Member

    Hmmm... Point taken.

    I suppose I'll never get big with such a skeptical attitude!

    I shall endeavor to be more gullible in the future.
    :D
     
  18. jessejr

    jessejr New Member

    Chrysin does work. My doctor has me on testosterone supplementation and Chrysin supplementation. In fact we have moved the delivery of Chrysin to the cream that contains the testosterone. We do regular saliva and blood work to make sure everything is doing its job.

    A couple of ways to supplement Chrysin would be to get the Life Extension Foundations "SUPER MiraForte with Chrysin" which also boots you natural testosterone production, or go to a compounding pharmicist and have Chrysin added to a cream for tramsdermal assimilation.

    By the way, my doctor has no vested interest in selling the Chrysin. I initially purchased the Chrysin from LEF, we just decided to add it to the script for my convenience. The script he writes is still the same price.
     
  19. George

    George New Member

    Steve,


    Just a thought. I am taking arimidex as were you. However, I, for lack of a better term "weened" myself from one-half a .25 gram every 3-4 days to one-quarter a .25 gram pill every 3-4 days. I get blood tests done regularly and this very low dose has kept my estrogen in check.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

    How's the little guy doing?

    Be well and big,

    George
     
  20. jessejr

    jessejr New Member

    All,

    I plan to do a pro-hormone cycle and use 6-OXO to control estro. I will have blood work done to establish baselines and measure the effectiveness of the products I use. So if you are interested I will post the results once I get all this stuff together.

    This may be a cycle or two away because I haven't found anything IM convinced works, except for 1AD which is not a mass builder.

    Regards,
    Jesse
     

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