beans with alternatives other than rice and pasta?

[imported_discretus1]

I just got a great deal on black beans...
I was wondering if I could combine them with the following items to make them into complete proteins (sick of beans & rice / beans & pasta):
blck. beans and oatmeal?
blck. beans and flax seeds?
blck. beans and buckwheat?
blck. beans and broccoli?
blck. beans and spinach?

any info. would be greatly appreciated!

 

[baby a]

Are you a vegetarian? Just wondering why you aren't eating meats as your main source of protein.

 

[spartacus]

i usually eat my beans in burrito form. the tortilla shell is wheat so i believe that combination provides all the eaa. i also add some cheese, chili pepper, cumin, salt, and garlic, to taste.

 

[boggy]

I get a lot of my protein intake from beans+oatmeal, it seems to work well

 

[Rommeke_]

Combinations of on one hand beans/peas/peanuts, and on the other hand grains/nuts are supposed to form complete proteins.

However, if you are a bodybuilder, and are trying to eat a bodybuilder's amount of protein (about 2,2 grams of protein/kg of body weight), it would be (almost) impossible to get this from a vegetable source only (without getting too much calories from the beans/grains). You should also eat meat/fish/cheese/whey/etc. to get your protein (without the calories).

*But* if you would be eating this recommended bodybuilder's amount of protein from vegetables/meat/fish/cheese/whey/etc., the source/quality of protein would become irrelevant, because you would be getting enough protein anyway.

Bottom line is:

if you are getting enough proteins from (animal and vegetable) sources, the composition of the proteins (from vegetable) sources doesn't matter (*).

Rommeke_

* However, see the HST FAQ's for whey protein just before weight lifting and "slow" protein/glucose after weight lifting

 

[bugpowder]

<!--QuoteBegin--http://1stholistic.com/Nutrition/hol_nutr_protein.htm
+May 4 2004,4:24--><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote (http://1stholistic.com/Nutrition/hol_nutr_protein.htm
@ May 4 2004,4:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To make a complete protein, combine beans with any one of the following:
[*]Brown rice.
[*]Seeds
[*]Corn
[*]Wheat
[*]Nuts *

Or combine brown rice with any one of the following:
[*]Beans
[*]Seeds
[*]Nuts
[*]Wheat

All soybean products, such as tofu and soymilk, are complete proteins. They contain the essential amino acids plus several other nutrients. Available in health food stores, tofu, soy oil, soy flour, soy-based meat substitutes, soy cheese, and many other soy products are healthful ways to complement the meatless diet.[/QUOTE]
* just remember, peanuts are not nuts. they are legumes, so i doubt they make a complete protein with black beans (not positive).
-bug

 

[Jake]

I wouldn't get too overly excited about combining proteins at each and every meal- as long as your intake over a 24-hour period is balanced, you'll be fine. That said, I think we naturally want to think of beans in combination with something else, like grains. There are many whole grains that work very well with beans. Here's a short list, in addition to those already mentioned:
Wheat berries
Bulghur (cracked wheat)
Barley
Amaranth
Quinoa
Whole wheat pasta (great for pasta and bean salads)
Kamut
Millet
Spelt
Triticale

You can find these at any health food store, and there are plenty of online sources as well.

Beans and broccoli or spinach sounds very tasty! Just accompany that with a slice of good crusty, whole-grain bread, a salad and some fresh fruit, discretus, and that's a meal!

BTW, you don't need to eat meat or fish to eat the protein needed for bodybuilding. Ovo-lactovegetarians should have little to no problem getting their .8-1g/lb of BW per day. However, I wouldn't consider cheese (unless it's cottage cheese, in which case you're talking about manna from heaven) a good protein source- cheese is really a fat and should be treated as such.

Jake

 

[bugpowder]

Quote[/b] (Jake @ May 05 2004,3:46)]BTW, you don't need to eat meat or fish to eat the protein needed for bodybuilding. Ovo-lactovegetarians should have little to no problem getting their .8-1g/lb of BW per day.

...theoretically true, but the results of this study surprised me.
-bug

Quote[/b] (American Journal of Clinical Nutrition @ Vol. 70, No. 6, 1032-1039, December 1999)]
Effects of an omnivorous diet compared with a lactoovovegetarian diet on resistance-training-induced changes in body composition and skeletal muscle in older men1,2,3

Wayne W Campbell, Marvin L Barton, Jr, Deanna Cyr-Campbell, Stephanie L Davey, John L Beard, Gianni Parise and William J Evans

Background: Very limited data suggest that meat consumption by older people may promote skeletal muscle hypertrophy in response to resistance training (RT).
Objective: The objective of this study was to assess whether the consumption of an omnivorous (meat-containing) diet would influence RT-induced changes in whole-body composition and skeletal muscle size in older men compared with a lactoovovegetarian (LOV) (meat-free) diet.

Design: Nineteen men aged 51–69 y participated in the study. During a 12-wk period of RT, 9 men consumed their habitual omnivorous diets, which provided 50% of total dietary protein from meat sources (beef, poultry, pork, and fish) (mixed-diet group). Another 10 men were counseled to self-select an LOV diet (LOV-diet group).

Results: Maximal strength of the upper- and lower-body muscle groups that were exercised during RT increased by 10–38% (P &lt; 0.001), independent of diet. The RT-induced changes in whole-body composition and skeletal muscle size differed significantly between the mixed- and LOV-diet groups (time-by-group interactions, P &lt; 0.05). With RT, whole-body density, fat-free mass, and whole-body muscle mass increased in the mixed diet group but decreased in the LOV- diet group. Type II muscle fiber area of the vastus lateralis muscle increased with RT for all men combined (P &lt; 0.01), and the increase tended to be greater in the mixed-diet group (16.2 ± 4.4 %) than in the LOV diet group (7.3 ± 5.1%). Type I fiber area was unchanged with RT in both diet groups.

Conclusion: Consumption of a meat-containing diet contributed to greater gains in fat-free mass and skeletal muscle mass with RT in older men than did an LOV diet.


1 From the Nutrition, Metabolism, and Exercise Laboratory, Donald W Reynolds Department of Geriatrics, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, Little Rock
2 the Geriatric Research, Education, and Clinical Center, Central Arkansas Veterans Healthcare System, Little Rock
3 the Noll Physiological Research Center and the Department of Nutrition, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park; and the Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, Hamilton, Canada.

 

[Jake]

Bug-
I'd want to see the whole article- from what's described in the Design section, it doesn't appear that they gave much thought to macronutrient intake in the LOV group. Also, how well did they control for adherence to the dietary regimens in the two groups? I'll hunt it down when I get a chance- not that I don't believe the results (I do), but I get concerned about methodology when it comes to studies like this.
Jake

 

[Jake]

I just checked the article- her's the lowdown on the diet they used in the two groups:

During weeks 1–5 and 7–11 of RT, the men in the mixed-diet group consumed their habitual omnivorous diets, whereas the men in the LOV-diet group were instructed to consume self-selected LOV diets. The men in the mixed-diet group received no dietary counseling other than a general request to not alter their usual patterns of food intake or to purposely attempt to alter their body weight. The men in the LOV-diet group participated in individual and group dietary counseling sessions with the research investigators and dietary staff, with consultation from the research dietitian, to assist with adherence to the vegetarian diet. Customized vegetarian cookbooks catering to each subject's particular tastes and dietary preferences, as well as a LOV meal guide booklet, were provided to each man in the LOV-diet group starting at week 1 of RT. The goal for dietary control was to have each man in the LOV-diet group completely abstain from any foods or beverages that contained meat (striated muscle) or meat products. No attempt was made to otherwise control the types or amounts of foods or beverages consumed by the LOV-diet group. Likewise, no attempt was made to match or balance the total energy or macronutrient (protein, carbohydrate, or fat) intakes of any of the men in the study.

For 5 d during baseline and at weeks 6 and 12 of RT, all men from both groups consumed a diet consisting of LOV foods prepared and provided by the metabolic kitchen staff at the Noll Physiological Research Center on the basis of a 2-d rotating menu. Diets for both the groups contained 15% of energy from protein, 30% from fat, and 55% from carbohydrate (11). Total energy intake was provided according to each man's total energy needs, estimated to be 1.5 times resting energy expenditure as predicted from the Harris-Benedict equation (12). The men were asked to consume all the foods and beverages provided and not to consume any other foods or beverages (other than water) during these times. The men in both groups were instructed not to purposely attempt to gain or lose body weight during the entire study period.

Comment: even though they used dietitians to help with the diet plans, they didn't mention any attempt to ensure that whatever protein was being consumed was complete. I'm not convinced by this study for this reason, and for the reason that they didn't randomize to the two groups. Still, I don't know that another study wouldn't show similar results- it's just not the best designed clinical trial I've seen, that's for sure

Jake

 

[bugpowder]

Jake,
I appreciate your concern about no declared attention to ensuring the consumption of complete proteins. There was mention of professional guidance, but the clearly stated goal was stringent adherence to the LOV diet.
Nonetheless, I would not be so quick to write it off on this basis. First of all, look at the week 12 recorded diet for that group.
Protein consumption
79 grams/day
.84 grams/day per kg of BW
13% of total macronutrient consumption by energy
16% of total macronutrient consumption by weight

 

[bugpowder]

Jake,

I appreciate your concern about no declared attention to ensure the consumption of complete proteins. There was mention of professional guidance, but the clearly stated goal was stringent adherence to the LOV diet.
Nonetheless, I would not be so quick to write it off on this basis. First of all, look at the week 12 recorded diet for that group.

Protein consumption
79 grams/day
.84 grams/day per kg of BW
13% of total macronutrient consumption by energy
16% of total macronutrient consumption by weight

Protein Source
42% of protein consumed as dairy or egg
58% other (not animal source)

As we can see, overall consumption of protein was adequate (albeit lower than the omnivorous group). A large portion of this consumption was from (complete) animal sources. Although it is clarified in the article, it would be presumptious to simply declare the remaining 'other' source as being exclusively incomplete.

I am curious if there is something in meat (striated muscle), for which phytonutrients do not adequately compensate. Just as an example, perhaps higher levels of dietary L-Carnitine facilitate hypertophy. I'm not proposing an answer, just the question.

These results are uniquely of interest to me. Until recently, I was following a partial vegan diet. By that odd designation, I mean that I habitually avoided meat, dairy and eggs. I still occasionally consumed various meats and sometimes dairy, but almost never eggs. I assumed that my heavy consumption of soy products, legumes and grains would be more than sufficient for hypertrophy. Now that I am starting an HST cycle, I have specifically added lean meats, eggs and dairy, just to make sure that all my bases are covered.

 

[bugpowder]

I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but this article may actually dispell my concern (ut supra) about source of protein. I'll add comment if I find anything interesting.


study: &quot;Effect of protein source on resistive-training-induced changes in body composition and muscle size in older men&quot;

from: American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 76, No. 3, 511-517, September 2002

full text: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/76/3/511

 

[bugpowder]

Quote[/b] (bugpowder @ May 08 2004,9:39)]I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but this article may actually dispell my concern (ut supra) about source of protein. I'll add comment if I find anything interesting.
study: &quot;Effect of protein source on resistive-training-induced changes in body composition and muscle size in older men&quot;
from: American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 76, No. 3, 511-517, September 2002
full text: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/76/3/511

weak. weak. weak.
this study, designed in response to Campell study's results, claims that there is no reportable difference in hypertrophy response with LOV or omnivorous diets. well, according to their results, fine that's true... when there is no hypertrophy. they keep claiming that the measured increase in &quot;the average increases in midthigh cross-sectional muscle area from weeks 3 to 15 (4.2 ± 3.0% and 6.0 ± 2.6% for the LOV and BC diets, respectively)&quot; are indications of significant hypertrophy. there were no other measurements to indicate a hypertrophic response. I even question whether or not the results were of statistical significance. The increase was less than the square root of the original measurement. If you want to demonstrate that a LOV diet is equivalent to an omnivorous diet (beef-containing, in this case), how about at least showing some hypertrophy.