Calories, and soy and whey protein

[jcl]

I'm 5'9" and currently about 160 at 14% body fat (with a long term goal of 5%,
though I don't know at what weight). I need about 3600 calories per day, and
I've learned (from reading and my dietitian) that 1g/lb protein is sufficient for
most people. I'm not trying to look like the Hulk. I just want some respectable
muscle. (I alternate lifting and cardio 6 days a week.)

I frequently have trouble eating enough calories and getting enough protein, at
about a 60/20/20% ratio. I very rarely eat red meat, or chicken (except at
Subway), and I don't eat dairy or soy. And I'm extremely health-conscious. I try
to make sure I get plenty of nutrients, low dietary cholesterol (< 200mg/day)
and very low saturated fat (<10g/day).

So I would greatly appreciate any tips on how to get enough food, given a busy
work schedule where I can't always eat every 2-3 hours like I try to.

Thanks!

 

[jsraaf]

You might want to consider MRPs; convenient, easy to prepare & good nutrient make-up. For protein, you might want to use whey supplements, easily mixed with water.

 

[jcl]

Thanks, but unfortunately this goes to the heart of my problem. Whey is
dairy-based, and pretty much all MRPs out there are either whey or soy-based.
Plus, I prefer to get my calories from real food rather than supplements, which is
ironic considering that I'm sick of food.

 

[jsraaf]

How about fish?

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (jcl @ June 18 2003,2:30)]I frequently have trouble eating enough calories and getting enough protein, at
about a 60/20/20% ratio.

60%what, 20% what (x2)

I see the main problem in that your wanting to get ~160g protein per day, but you have eliminated most of the foods taht supply protien for 'health' reasons?
Are you a part time vegetarian? not htat theres anything wrong with that, it just seems at odds with what you are doing.
Eliminating dairy, meat and soy removes about 95% of the available proteins in your diet. Having a relatively low fat (Im guessing one of the 20% is fat) also removes other potential sources (eggs-whole at least, peanuts, seeds)

Why are you eliminating meat? soy? dairy? or is there food sensitivity/allergies there?

 

[jcl]

Quote[/b] (Aaron_F @ June 18 2003,5:23)]

Quote[/b] (jcl @ June 18 2003,2:30)]I frequently have trouble eating enough calories and getting enough protein, at
about a 60/20/20% ratio.

60%what, 220% what (x2)
I see the main problem in that your wanting to get ~160g protein per day, but you have eliminated most of the foods taht supply protien for 'health' reasons?
Are you a part time vegetarian? not htat theres anything wrong with that, it just seems at odds with what you are doing.
Eliminating dairy, meat and soy removes about 95% of the available proteins in your diet. Having a relatively low fat (Im guessing one of the 20% is fat) also removes other potential sources (eggs-whole at least, peanuts, seeds)
Why are you eliminating meat? soy? dairy? or is there food sensitivity/allergies there?

Sorry, that's 60% carbs, 20% protein, and 20% fat.

And no, I haven't given up meat. I like meat, it just gets repetitive
and boring. I do eat red meat, but very rarely (2x per month at most)
as I try to keep my saturated fat way down. (My cholesterol used to be
293, but in 6 months I got it down to 180, and that was a year ago. I'm
getting a physical next month, so I'm eager to see what it is now.)
I have removed dairy and soy because they're so harmful to humans. I
know many people here would probably disagree, but the way I figure it,
better safe than sorry.

I still eat things like nuts (e.g. walnuts and almonds) and good oils
(in salad dressing, etc.). 20% fat out of 3600 calories works out to
80g, which IMO is a decent amount of fat. And I just don't like eggs.
And jsraaf suggested fish, which I do like. In fact, I'm having a
salmon steak tonight. But the harder thing to manage is how to get
protein during the day when I'm at work.

I've do realize that my preferences are somewhat contradictory. I want
to be as healthy as humanly possible, yet from everything I read about
how people build mass, I'm SOL. One thing at a time, apparently. And I
just can't bring myself to eat most things I see people posting about.

My biggest problem is that I'm just plain sick of food, so having to eat
as much as I do for the next umpteen decades is a miserable prospect.
Once I reach my weight/bf goal I'll be able to cut about 300 cals/day,
but that's still a lot.

 

[Aaron_F]

Quote[/b] (jcl @ June 19 2003,12:48)]Sorry, that's 60% carbs, 20% protein, and 20% fat.
And no, I haven't given up meat. I like meat, it just gets repetitive
and boring. I do eat red meat, but very rarely (2x per month at most)

Meats lovely and never gets boring

Quote[/b] ]as I try to keep my saturated fat way down. (My cholesterol used to be
293, but in 6 months I got it down to 180, and that was a year ago. I'm
getting a physical next month, so I'm eager to see what it is now.)

basically, if you get lean cuts of meat, especially with chicken or turkey, you get lots of protein and very low amounts of saturates (if you are on a lowering cholesterol thing, <8% or around 32g)

Quote[/b] ]I have removed dairy and soy because they're so harmful to humans. I
know many people here would probably disagree, but the way I figure it,
better safe than sorry.

ok, I wont say much except there is little evidence for either of those things being harmful to humans, well it depends if you like 'not milk.com or tmag' I guess. Most problems with milk come from either the fat (for whole milk products tho) or the casein (certain parts of it), whey by itself doesnt effect many people, and if you get a hydrolysed whey, its basically been broken down so much its not really 'whey' anymore, its just aminos and di and tri peptides. You can also get a rice based protien powder, I think that Protien factory sell it, harder to find of course, but not impossible (i am not responsible for the taste of the product tho )

Quote[/b] ]I still eat things like nuts (e.g. walnuts and almonds) and good oils (in salad dressing, etc.). 20% fat out of 3600 calories works out to 80g, which IMO is a decent amount of fat. And I just don't like eggs.
And jsraaf suggested fish, which I do like. In fact, I'm having a
salmon steak tonight. But the harder thing to manage is how to get protein during the day when I'm at work.

Fish is great, but difficult to eat all day as well. Then you get the potential heavy metal problems as well (especially if you are being that picky to avoid all dairy/soy)

Quote[/b] ]I've do realize that my preferences are somewhat contradictory. I want
to be as healthy as humanly possible, yet from everything I read about
how people build mass, I'm SOL. One thing at a time, apparently. And I
just can't bring myself to eat most things I see people posting about.
My biggest problem is that I'm just plain sick of food, so having to eat
as much as I do for the next umpteen decades is a miserable prospect.
Once I reach my weight/bf goal I'll be able to cut about 300 cals/day,
but that's still a lot.

You have to take note that a lot of people on this board (and most bbrs in general) are willing to take things to hte extreme to get what htey are looking for. ie they get worried if htey miss a meal, mistime their protein shake before training, get stressed about eating a high GI meal, yada yada yada.
Looking at the research to date, you are already doing one of the best things to do for your health. exercise. and plenty of it.
The next thing is dont smoke (well that could almost be the BIGGEST thing)
Diet is a good thing, but in terms of overall diet, if you are eating large quantities of fruits and vegetables, some nuts, other fat sources, lean protein sources, then everything will be going well. If you are working to be as healthy as possible, limiting all high GI is good as well, (not high GI as such, but processed foods etc, as all veges/fruits are low GI normally).
I know I will get ragged on with the RNI thing, but the 1g/kg is a estimated RNI (rec nutrient intake), so by statistics its the amount that should cover the requirements of 95% of the (resistance training) population. it does not mean that YOU as an individual needs that much, becuase you may need 0.5g/lb to grow, or you may need 2g/lb (extremely rare - altho if you believed the normal bb forums, everyone is within this 5% of the population).
If you are dieting, I would recommend 1g/lb becuase thatswhat the research seems to show as adeuqate for dieting people. Moderate red wine intake also seems to be good (altho 'moderate' can be from 1glass/day to >1bottle per day )
Good luck