carb-controlled bulk

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bluejacket

New Member
im looking for input from anyone who might care to comment.

without getting into a "heres my life history" type of post, this has been my experience. been lifting for years and eating better (monitor intake more closly) for the past 6yrs or so. i certainly havent tried every approach multiple times and still consider myself in the learning as i go catagorie (prob. always will). i can gain wgt no problem (especially since passing mid 30s) but have yet to improve on a 1lb muscle to 1lb fat ratio. as some of you are aware i have the basics of diet down, protein amount, cal surplus, macros, consistency etc. ive done serious cal overages (more then 1lb a week) down to slight cal excess (@1/2lb a week), eating real clean to eating whatever. bottom line is for every lb of muscle im putting on at least a lb of fat is coming along for the ride, regardless of how i put the lbs on.

that brings me to this point.
ive only seriously (purposely)cut twice in my life. once a yr and half ago after serious excess bulk. had modest results (slowly lower cals each week or two since it was my first attempt) until i finally dropped carbs below 100 a day and saw much better results. im in the middle of ud2.0 now and have been pleased with the fat loss as well as muscle/strength retention. obviously both efforts showed good results once carb intake was closely monitored.

is there any credible research/thinking/ideas on controlling carbs during a bulk helping with the control of fat gain. im aware of lyles ud2.0 bulk plan and it is certainly under consideration but im also interested in just the diet aspect of a carb controlled bulk. dont get me wrong, if i were a single man id love to explore all that ud2.0 has to offer but suffice it to say my wife loves me more when i w/o M,W,F evening as opposed to my current 1or2 week ud2.0 set up.

are some folks more carb sensitive then others? the dramatic diff. ive seen cutting once carbs are controlled is one thing. can the effect be similar for bulking givin the prev. bulk exper. ive mentioned above? is my head too far up my *** and this was all covered somewhere else unbeknownst to me?

anyway, enough rambling for now. i hope what im asking is somewhat clear. sometimes i just think outloud when asking questions and only cause confusion.

any thoughts would be appreciated.
 
You may have poor insulin sensitivity...and you may be blessed with a crappy P-ratio. The UD2 bulk would be a very safe bet for you. IF bulking seems to have significant benefits, but I haven`t read all that I want to read about it in order to provide proper feedback. You could try a TKD bulk, with carbs only around training. As far as science goes...most studies involving diet protocols are crap, and don`t really set up bulking scenarios. Messing with insulin sensitivity(trying to get muscle to be insulin sensitive and fat to be insulin resistant) like the UD2 does on a macro scale, the IF does on a daily basis and the TKD doesn`t do, but tries to ride on the peri-workout muscle insulin sensitivity window is probably the most productive path you can explore.

Or you can use Test...Test is a supreme partinioner-though I`m afraid my knowledge of Vitamin S is poor and I can`t be of assistance there.
 
thanks M.

ive read a little about TKD in the forum but most all of it pertained to cutting. like ud2.0 im sure ill have to get the book to get a real understanding of what its all about (and the bulk version). excuse my density but i cant for the life of me figure out what IF bulking might be.
now that im familiar with the ud2.0 routine the bulk version seems worth a try, family/work issues not withstanding. but all thats down the road a bit.

thanks again for the info, any other thoughts are appreciated
 
TKD=Targeted Ketogenic Diet. As for getting the book, what book?Lyle's The Ketogenic Diet is your best bet, as most other books(Faigin's Natural Hormonal Enhancement comes to mind) are fairly sucky. Bulking/cutting is a function of calories-eat more, you grow, eat less you lean out(basically)
wink.gif
The premise is really basic-get carbs(about 100/150 g) around training-50 before, 50-100 after. Or variations around this. The rest of the day is low-carb. There are some articles on the net about this, in order to get more info(I`m lazy, I know).

IF=Intermittent Fasting. This seems to be far better than we thought before...you can read up on it on Lyle's board. This is smarter than the TKD, because it attempts to do what the UD2 does on a macro, per week scale, on a daily basis. Very very interesting overall, I think I`ll toy with it on my next bulk.
 
ok

it was my impression that TKD and CKD (as well as other topics) were covered in detail in the lyles keto book. i know from ud2.0 that trying to piece together the plan from the forum posting, questions, web info etc. etc. is bad way to go about it when compared to reading the actual book (or concept contained in the keto book).

im guessing this is the reason the most popular refrain over at body recomp is.... "did you read the f***ing book?" haha good stuff.

thanks for the update, i will definitly be looking into all these topics. not sure if ive got my finger on what the actual problem/situation (if you can call it a problem) is with regard to the bulk but your explaination certainly "rings true" to my experiences so far.
 
Well, the Keto book has most of everything a keto dieter would be interested in. It`s also long, dull, and technical, but if you like that kind of stuff, cool. All in all, it`s a good book, but it`s up to you to determine wheter or not you`re interested in buying it. There are a few things there that even Lyle reckons should be updated, but most of it is still relevant today, about 9 years(if I`m not mistaken) later.
 
I was thinking that either an IF or UD2.0 bulk would be cool, but they aren't easy for a family man. Really, they would drive my wife batty, and it wouldn't be worth it.

If I were single, I'd do the IF diet, eating at a buffet each day post workout (I'd keep it healthy though, promise!)
 
Yeah, when you have a family, it's hard to do special diets. The wife gets mad when you don't eat what she makes, or when you have to measure all the crap out, or when you are cooking your own seperate meals, etc etc. Yay fun.

If you were hardcore, you'd leave her for the iron. Don't pay child support either, that's all money that should be used for more iron, or for more gear. That's hardcore.
 
<div>
(Totentanz @ Apr. 26 2007,18:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If you were hardcore, you'd leave her for the iron.  Don't pay child support either, that's all money that should be used for more iron, or for more gear.  That's hardcore.</div>
ha, sounds like something from &quot;muscle&quot; by sam fussell from the early 90's.

im actually pretty lucky, my wife is active herself so she values a good diet/workout plan. actually, thats a large part of the problem. the more time intensive and in-flexible my w/os are the less time and options she has. then you add our 3yr old into the mix and were all lucky to get enough sleep.
 
i thought id &quot;re-activate&quot; this thread with a small update as well as give anyone who may have some who may have missed it a chance to chime in.

my knowledge in the area of p-ratio, insuline sensitivity, IF TKD &amp; CKD diets has grown quite a bit since i originally started this thread. (huge thanks to morgoth for steering me in the right direction on many questions in the begining). my diet and w/o program for the rest of the summer was a mixed bag. diet went very well (ud 2.0) and im quite pleased with the science as well as effectivness of it. w/os were ok at best, strength kept pace despite fat loss and lower cals until i hit 2 minor injuries. again, they where minor but in &quot;tough to work around&quot; areas (shoulder, hamstring). they mostly seem to be behind me but those injuries (during a cut no less) coupled with a mid august vacation has really set me back a bit. honestly im not overly concerned as my strength tends to bounce back quickly and whatever size ive lost (a lot of fat but def. some muscle too since the injury) is in large measure compensated for by what i learned about myself during these last 6months.

im currently doing maint. eating and lifting moderatly heavy 2-3x a week while i let my body recover from the most recent cut cycle as well as rebound slowly from the injuries. im still planning a bulk for the winter in an attempt to recover much of my strength and muscle while staying away from the higher BF(15% and above) levels ive hti many times in all prev. bulks.

ill most likely go about this by using a carb controlled bulk. 100g carbs thru the day for general mind/body health (complex, vegi) and @50g around w/o. obviously plenty of protein with a decent amount of good fat to round out the cals......looking for 2-300cal surplus to start and adjust from there.

considered ud 2.0 bulk (since cut went so well) as well as the anabolic/metabolic diet type bulk but after a summer of every week being ruled by relatively strict w/o diet protocol my family, work, social life etc need a little bit more flexability. at least for now.

considered IF type bulk (still technically considering). havent had the opportunity to give it a try yet but would like to while still on maint. (another 1-2 weeks) to see how i like it. not terribly optomistic though......sounds great for cutting but im not a big eater at any one sitting and getting enough cals in 8 hrs to bulk seems daunting. also, a lot of info examples of IF out there right now but not many realte to bulking.

anyway thats enough for now. any one with any thoughts or experiences on the above topics please feel free to toss them out. obviously im especially interested in anyone whose tried to bulk while reigning in the carbs or going the IF route.

thanks
 
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