cardio/ lifting?

[winterfresh22]

i assumed there would be threads on this, but after searching found nothing that could help me.


i am in highschool, and am taking advantage of my youth. I am on the x country team(fall) and the lacrosse team(spring) for my school. This summer, i am trying to bulk up more to get away from my somewhat "soccer player" build. An example of how big i would like to be might be Terrel Owens- obvious that he works out and has results, but nothing to enter a contest.

I have a good cardio program to improve my 5k times, and have started Max OT, plan on figuring out my maxes, deconditioning, and then starting HST. I want to improve my times but dont want to lose weight. I would like to put about 20 more lbs of muscle total on me, and realisticially 10 lbs before the end of summer(although more would be nice). I also plan on throwing/shooting the lacrosse ball around to improve skill wise in that. If i have to suffer my times slightly because of the amount of muscle i have, i could live. As i get closer to spring, i will add agility, but for right now im not too concerned with that.

my problem- can i do my approx 30-45 min cardio to gain endurance and still bulk up a little? If so when should i run and practice skill work.

i was thinking of mon wed fri upper body/ throwing shooting since that can tire out the arms somewhat
and tues thurs abs/legs mixed in with some hard cardio. I dont have machines for my legs, so they will only be getting a 10-20 min routine.


i have experimented with schedules before, and found that if i dont spit them that i end up with a 2 hr routine.



questions, comments...

 

[BoSox]

well your goals are pretty harshly contradicting. It's tough to be an "endurance weenie" while putting on mass.

And for what it's worth, TO is absolutely jacked.

 

[vicious]

Keep in mind that TO hasn't really put on signifcant mass in well over 3-4 years. He works mostly on endurance and joint tissue conditioning as well as core strength, and he built most of his mass during his college years (more or less, he lifted like a bodybuilder through college) and then the first 1-2 years as a Niner.

Meaning, he didn't try to do too many things at once during any given cycle.

But it's theoretically possible to do both (functional/endurance performance and proper bulking.) You may need to eat at least 1500-2000 calories in surplus, but it can be done.

Bigger problem is that the sports training will cause problems with RBE, especially for your upper back and torso. I'd wait until 5s to start them.

If you can't, then start in the 10s and go for at least 2-3 sets per exercise. If you're feeling crazy, then try this clustering/density scheme:

1) 10s: luster with 3-5 rep minisets, very short rest periods (10-30 seconds), and 20-25 total reps.

2) 5s: 1-3 reps, 5-30 seconds, 10-15 reps

In your case, cardio should be done on your off days. Especially important that you carb load after your workouts. Meaning, look at chugging down at 600-1000 calories of carbs through the first 2-3 hours after the jog.

I think skill practice can be done either after your workout session or before your cardio.

Did I mention you have to eat?

cheers,
Jules

 

[BoSox]

so Jules, if cardio is necessary, you feel it's better to have on different days than lifting?

Like if you have to run or play a sport on M-W-F, is it better to lift on S-T-Th? Or is it better to do it all one day and have "complete" rest days?

 

[vicious]

I'm all for post-WO cardio, but it has to be short (<40 minutes for steady state) and oriented toward fat loss or jogging the metabolism up.

But, if somebody is interested in improving their run or working on their endurance, I think a separate day should be set for that. That kind of cardio is oriented toward functional performance, which would be naturally compromised were you to do this after, say, a session of squats.

Ideally, you could do cardio at a different time of the day on the same workout day. Then you would take the day off to replenish stores.

The most important thing, however, is how you eat around the sessions. Regardless of scheduling, most people fail at that, and that is the real reason why people don't bulk up with cardio.

cheers,
Jules

 

[winterfresh22]

Quote[/b] (vicious @ June 07 2005,3:38)]

I am very appreciative of the help, and plan on carbing up now after runs. I was thinking about buying some accelerade for post cardio days that i have a hard run( ie about 1-2 times per week).

I am trying not to look like an "endurance weenie" but i enjoy the sport and do well in it. I am not one of the kids that only cares about performing well in his sport, and doesnt want to gain weight in fear of slowing down. However, i have no intentions on getting huge, just big enough that people can tell i work out with my shirt on(about 20 more lbs)If you have any more ideas on how i can get more endurance, bigger/stronger, while still being able to practice lacrosse i am all ears.

FYI- i am willing to work out with weights about 5 times a week, and run prob 3 and increase as the season nears( we start last 2 weeks of august)

 

[BoSox]

Quote[/b] (vicious @ June 07 2005,5:55)]I'm all for post-WO cardio, but it has to be short (<40 minutes for steady state) and oriented toward fat loss or jogging the metabolism up.  
But, if somebody is interested in improving their run or working on their endurance, I think a separate day should be set for that.  That kind of cardio is oriented toward functional performance, which would be naturally compromised were you to do this after, say, a session of squats.    
Ideally, you could do cardio at a different time of the day on the same workout day.  Then you would take the day off to replenish stores.
The most important thing, however, is how you eat around the sessions.  Regardless of scheduling, most people fail at that, and that is the real reason why people don't bulk up with cardio.  
cheers,
Jules

alright well I'm looking at competitive basketball games twice a week, Monday and Wednesday. Since, because of work, I can only lift from 4-5, I'm looking at only an hour or so of rest between the end of lifting adn the start of bball.

Assuming I split it up, and lift Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, is it just a matter of taking in lots of carbs before, during, and after the bball games? As of now protein remains pretty much constant, 250-300g on lifting days and 250ish on non-lifting days (I weigh a bit over 200). I have around 60-100g of carbs around my lifting workouts, and just try to get in a lot of carbs during bball. Anything I should be doing differently to make a bulk still effective in spite of hard competition twice a week?

Thanks Jules

 

[winterfresh22]

I hate to do this, but i have many questions on this topic


BUMP

as of now, i did max OT to introdue my muscles back into weight lifting, and have just started 1st week of HST.
after talking to some very knowledgable running coaches, before aug 22 i should be working on mileage/ week, not really intensity. This would mean about 30 mi/week at a steady pace. Once the pre season starts with the team(aug 22), our coach will be having us do hard intervals about 2 days a week. However, as of now i am not too concerned with high intensity runs.


I have some questions concerning "chugging 600-1000 cals of carbs"( since i will need plenty of carbs in me, and drinking is the easiest way). As endurance supplements go, i have been told there is Soy protein(the runners protein), Accelerade helps you DURING your workouts, and RecoveryX is basically accelerades brother, its just for after my workout instead of before/during. What I was told to do, is mix a 2/3, 1/3 mixture of whey and soy respectively as my protein, for the morning and after workouts. Then take accelerade during workouts.

Would you say that is valid info( i heard bad things about soy for males)? What supplements have you been told work well for cardio runners who dont want to loose weight?If someone could clarify what vicious is talking about in his post about RBE trouble?Now that im doing semi high mileage, do you think i should run on off days, or do a split and do it on legs day(or upper body)?

i know all these are long posts, but i take every single reply to heart.THANKS