Cutting-gaining periods vs slightly above maintena

[bluejacket]

some of what ive read recently about the morning cardio routine is the results can vary greatly depending on body types (naturally lean vs not, etc.). to me thats only a half a step away from "individual results may vary" and might possibly be detrimental.

if you think its working for you then great, but it doesnt sound like the type of fat loss program that should get a blanket endorsement all.

 

[Heavy Duty dude]

The goal here is to bulk without gaining fat. You lose 250 cal of fat in the morning and you gain like 250 cal of muscle and 250 cal of fat the rest of the day if you will - assuming a ratio of 1-1.

And you can lose fat and gain muscle at pretty much the same time by doing that if the ratios of muscle: fat are good during the cardio and during the bulk are good.

But it's true that at the end of the day the WEIGHT changes depending on the caloric balance of the day. If you burn 250 cal in the morning and eat a surplus of 500 cal, you will gain 250 cal of weight at the end of the day.

Doing morning cardio id effective in caloric surplus because you want to burn only fat. If you are cutting, it won't make much difference because even if the cardio burns glycogen, that glycogen "loss" will turn out to a fat loss later in the day. The situation is different in that case.

A few other remarks:
- you can lift weights in the morning, with the cardio, so you don't need to do 2 workouts in a day. Many people do that, it's a question of habit. Doing that requires enough good supplements like I said to have enough energy and not lose muscle. But it's definitely feasable, especially if you avoid squats and deadlifts. The body has well enough muscle glycogen in the morning. You can do some low intensity cardio between the sets also to save time. The only thing is when training in the morning is that it's important to warm up well with some cardio - which burns fat anyways so it's not a waste of time -, and avoid big movements like the squat and deadlift. Even at that since we don't push really hard in HST - almost never to failure -, it is still possible to some extent.
- If you do cardio/ train in the morning, lypolisis is going to be stimulated during a part of the morning at least, which reduces the chances of gaining fat. If you take fat burners they will also continue to take effect and will reduce fat gains during a part of the morning also.

 

[imported_etothepii]

Here's what I've been thinking about:

As you gain and loose weight, you tend to gain and loose fat and muscle in a ratio similar to your current body composition.

So, if you're fat and you lose a pound, that pound of weight loss has a high fat to muscle ratio.

If you're lean and you lose a pound, that pound of loss has a low fat to muscle ratio.

Gaining is similar.

If you're fat and you gain a pound, that pound of gain has a high fat to muscle ratio

If you're lean and you gain a pound, that pound of gain has a low fat to muscle ratio.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I have read this many times.

So how on earth can someone gain a very muscular physique?

Bulking and cutting should be an exercise in futility. What is the difference?

Outside of drugs, I have to say the exercise is the difference. Yes, there may be some nutrient partitioning characteristics of certain foods, but I would tend to beleive that plays a very, very minor role.

Exercise has to be the key. Take to fat guys who diet, one with exercise, one without. Studies (see EXRX) have shown that in obese and overweight subjects, the guy (or gal as in the studies) will lose weight, yet gain muscle -- the newbie phenomenon. The other guy (or gal) will lose weight, but will lose both fat and muscle.

Now I don't have a study to refer to, but suppose two elite body builders at say 8% BF, go on a 6 month binge. One continues to exercise, the other becomes a couch potato. Yes, they will both gain weight. My instinct is that the first one will gain fat and muscle. The other will gain fat, and probable lose muscle, due to the cessation of the elite level of training.

Now, I've used the word "exercise" pretty loosely. In my book, there is resistance training and cardio (I'm not considering any other varieties, hybrids, unusual training forms, etc.)

In general purposes:
Cardio is for losing weight
Resistance is for gaining weight

But doing cardio while bulking, and resistance training while cutting, i.e. reversing the general purpose of each form, makes the difference that I asked about earlier, correct?

You lift when you cut to minimize muscle loss. You do cardio when you bulk to minimize fat gain. That is what prevents the cutting/bulking pattern from being an exercise in futility.

Now, when do you do cardio, when do you eat, how do you lift ... and on and on ... these are what we need difinitive answers to in order to optimize the muscle gain and fat loss we all want.

I believe that HST is the answer to one of those question ... how to lift.

I don't know about the rest.

I have strong feelings about HIIT cardio. The fact that it turns up the metabolism to such a degree, burning fat while not exercising, leads me to beleive it is muscle sparing, and should be done while cutting. Others say the intensity leads to imediate muscle burning. I'd like to see a study on HIIT on fit people, instead of overweight women...

OK, I'm just about out of gas on this. Hope I've done more than just state the obvious. I bet someone will let me know what they think!

 

[faz]

burn fat while training, burn glycogen the rest of the day.
burn glycogen while training burn fat the rest of the day.
over 24hrs they negate each other (same effect)
it doesnt matter how many cals you burn while you train if you eat 2oocals more than you burn you will gain fat