Cutting

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imported_flow

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I bet this question has been asked a thousand times before. the reason why I'm asking it again: I want you to now my current training and nutrition schedule before giving any general answers.

Whenever I try to cut down on BF, I hit a wall around 10%. This time however, I'm not willing to give in so easily. Summer hasn't even begun yet!

At the moment, I'm doing three weekly cardio sessions of 10 mins rope jumping (HR around 80-85% max) right after my HST workouts. On the days between gym workouts, I do some DB exercises at home for my pet peeve: arms. I eat a rather clean diet with lots of good protein and whole grain carbs. For supplements, I take protein powder, fish oil and multivitamins.

Do you think I could aid further fat loss (while preventing LBM) just by reducing calories some more (replacing whole grains by fruit and veggies, maintaining protein intake)? I don't want to add any more cardio because after workouts, I want to get in my post-wo drink asap, and on off days I'm just too plain lazy, and prefer doing some DB curls at my desk ;) .

Still, will more cardio help in the process, or could the same effect be achieved by reducing calories some more?
 
Sorry that I keep responding to all your threads flow. Tell me to 'knock it off' and I will. You and I have similar concerns, and I've pretty much sorted them out during the last 2-3 years. Anyway FWIW...

There's one major thing you didn't mention, but you probably do include daily, that is H2O. I try and drink a gallon per day.

As for aerobics. When I do a cutting cycle, I try to do 5-6 days per week of 30 minutes @ 70-80% max heart rate. I've noticed, for me, that the lower end of the scale works best and I lose fat easier.

If you are losing inches (caliper would be mm) on your waist and are measuring your waist every 2 weeks, keep the calories the same. When you stop losing the inches (millimeters), then reduce calories by 500 per day and monitor your waist measurements every 2 weeks.

I sound like a broken record about the measuring thing. BUT, that's the way to monitor progress objectively. If you didn't lose in the last 2 weeks, obviously your calories IN were more than calories OUT. If you DID lose during the 2 weeks then don't reduce calories.
 
Haiyai, I'm very glad that you take the time and effort to reply!
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What I gather from your answer is that I should fix the amount of cardio I'm willing to do and stick to it. If loss of BF is too slow/nonexistent, I should further reduce calories.

Maybe I have to reconsider two of my previous convictions in order to make this cutting cycle more successful:

1) The amount of cardio I'm willing to do.
You recommend much more cardio than I'm doing right now. I'd like cardio to be restricted to my gym workout days only, so just three weekly sessions.

2) Not counting calories.
I feel that I can guesstimate my nutritional intake very precisely, and I have never bothered with counting calories because the mere idea of weighing every tidbit I eat downright scares me. I hope that I can reduce my daily caloric intake adequately without actually counting.

Sorry for going back to one of my previous concerns, but I feel that changing the two things above goes together with a lot of effort, and I'm not sure if the possible results are worth it. Therefore, I'll first try just going by feeling, eating less calorie dense food, and see what happens. If nothing happens, I'll have to decide how far I'm willing to go.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (flow @ June 04 2003,3:52)]What I gather from your answer is that I should fix the amount of cardio I'm willing to do and stick to it. If loss of BF is too slow/nonexistent, I should further reduce calories.
Maybe I have to reconsider two of my previous convictions in order to make this cutting cycle more successful:
1) The amount of cardio I'm willing to do.
You recommend much more cardio than I'm doing right now. I'd like cardio to be restricted to my gym workout days only, so just three weekly sessions.
2) Not counting calories.
I feel that I can guesstimate my nutritional intake very precisely, and I have never bothered with counting calories because the mere idea of weighing every tidbit I eat downright scares me. I hope that I can reduce my daily caloric intake adequately without actually counting.
Sorry for going back to one of my previous concerns, but I feel that changing the two things above goes together with a lot of effort, and I'm not sure if the possible results are worth it. Therefore, I'll first try just going by feeling, eating less calorie dense food, and see what happens. If nothing happens, I'll have to decide how far I'm willing to go.
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The main thing about cardio, is that it conditions your body to burn fat hormonally. When the body 'thinks' it is getting frequent aerobic work, it will more easily free up its most efficient form of energy. That form of energy is...FAT. Fat is the preferred energy source for low intensity activity. Once the body shifts into a fat burning mode, which will take 1-3 months, your body will begin burning more fat all the time, even while watching tv. TV watching, is a low intensity activity. But the body won't burn the fat if it doesn't need to. The aerobic activity sends signals to the body that fat burning is required. I hope that made sense.

So mainly, aerobics is to help the body create a condition and environment that is conducive to burning fat. Aerobics isn't really an efficient way to burn calories. To burn off one M&M candy....you have to walk the length of a football field. Not efficient. Eat a whole bag of them and you are walking the football field, I guess 60 times. Too much effort and time required. That's why aerobics should be used as a tool to set the body up hormonally, and not used to lose calories.

Anyway, just do the aerobics consistently 3 times a week, it will be enough to set up the body to make the hormonal shift to burning more fat all the time.

As for calories eaten: you're exactly right. If you aren't losing inches on your waist, further reduce calories. If you can guesstimate calories, and it works for you, good. That's the way to go. Some people can do that. I eat pretty much the same thing all the time and I add to or subtract from the food that I eat. I seldom weigh food, but I'm always thinking about how much of protein, carbs, and calories I'm eating at any one meal just to be sure that I am still working toward my goals. I have my diet layed out on paper. I have a paper for several calorie levels. I have a 1500 calorie paper, 2000, 2500, 3000, 3500. I always change using 500 calorie increments. The papers help me get used to the food amounts required for the amount of calories I need to be eating.

Make no mistake about it, it takes a lot of EFFORT to have a great physique. If it was easy, everyone would look in shape. It ain't easy. To achieve goals, it takes sacrifice and persistance. If you don't stay on task you won't get the results you're after. I think the easiest way to reach the goals is to come to the realization that it has to be a lifestyle. Something that can be continued for life. If not, it is a FAD.

That's why people gain weight after they lose it. They diet and do the 'right' things to lose weight. But they go back to their 'old' lifestyle and end up gaining the weight back. If they lost the weight and continued living that lifestyle that got them the weightloss, they'd be able to keep the weight off.

Set goals, do what you can to achieve them. Realize it's not easy. Make it a lifestyle. This is key to success I think.
 
Haiyai, thanks again for your great advice!

I like the idea of setting out a plan for all meals consumed on a typical day, and work from there. Because my nutritional habits are fairly consistent this might work for me.

As for "lifestyle": I consider my lifestyle to be fitness-oriented. However, this issue must be treated within the cultural context, i. e. fitness lifestyle in Germany means something completely different than in the US. We don't have that many health food stores, fat free foods etc. like you have in the US. This has positive sides as well, because there's not so much hype and bull around. It's more about eating organic food and avoiding everything artificial.

Still, manipulating one's caloric intake for "bulking" and "cutting" would be classified as an eating disorder similar to anorexia or bulimia by the huge majority of Germans. Of course, I see the issue differently. And I also think that one should be true to one's convictions and beliefs. However, I'm not an island. I have a wife, my parents and in-laws live close by, and if I openly practiced an "extreme" (whatever that may mean) fitness/bodybuilding lifestyle, I would be seen as some kind of freak by the people who are close to me.

Of course, the above won't keep me from implementing some of your suggestions.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Still, manipulating one's caloric intake for "bulking" and "cutting" would be classified as an eating disorder similar to anorexia or bulimia by the huge majority of Germans.
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It is a disorder, orthorexia nervosa :)

See also this article by Bryan.

But this doesn't mean that a bodybuilder's diet isn't far more healthy than the average uninformed person's. Perhaps it's time to give a name to the disorder of eating crap all day without thinking the least on how it will affect your health.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I have a wife, my parents and in-laws live close by, and if I openly practiced an "extreme" (whatever that may mean) fitness/bodybuilding lifestyle, I would be seen as some kind of freak by the people who are close to me.
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I know exactly what you're talking about... I used to have the same problem with family, friends and girlfriends... The trick is to learn how to transpose guilt and compunction on them ;) Since you obviously now a lot more about nutrition than they do, you can start by making 'innocent' remarks on what they eat, why it is bad, etc. When they eat french fries you can look at them with compassion, as if they were smoking or something :D. It's a slow process, but since you are right all the way it will work. I have managed to make a few people around me to feel guilty when they eat sweets, while at the same time I might be eating a chocolate but they won't say anything because they are so certain I know what I'm doing :D
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (flow @ June 05 2003,12:13)]fitness lifestyle in Germany means something completely different than in the US. We don't have that many health food stores, fat free foods etc. like you have in the US.

Still, manipulating one's caloric intake for "bulking" and "cutting" would be classified as an eating disorder similar to anorexia or bulimia by the huge majority of Germans.
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Health foods in the US isn't really all that healthy. IMO most foods reduce fat and increase sugar, which really messes up metabolism, blood sugar levels and causes weight increases and diabetes. It is way more healthy to eat regualr whole butter than a highly processed/hydrogenated margarine.

Actually, I live in Japan. Here, the diet trend only affects the young female population. There is pressure to be really skinny. Most girls that fall into this trap are skinny, but are probably 30% bodyfat because they don't have any muscle. Their body has used it all for energy because they don't eat enough food. Men on the other hand, drink and smoke and eat crappy and have pot bellies.

Average German "couch potatoes" might think that bulking and cutting are eating disorders, but the top athletes in Germany wouldn't think that, right? They understand nutrition and the bulk/cut strategy.

Thanks for the "Germany insight". I learned something new and interesting today.
 
To answer your first posted question. When calories are below mantainence you will lose fat. Refer to the formula in the eating for size article.
 
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