Damage relationship to hypertrophy

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy Research' started by dkm1987, May 9, 2008.

  1. dkm1987

    dkm1987 New Member

    The role of muscle damage in muscle remodeling: No pain, no gain?

    FASEB J. 2006 20:A397

    Kyle Flann, Paul C LaStayo and Stan L Lindstedt

    ABSTRACT

    Skeletal muscle is a dynamic tissue that responds adaptively to both the nature and intensity of muscle use. This study tested the hypothesis that a damaging bout of exercise is pre-requisite for muscle hypertrophy. Although this hypothesis has been widely accepted, there is surprisingly scant evidence that muscle damage, accompanied by an inflammatory response, is a necessary precursor to muscle hypertrophy. Subjects were divided into two experimental populations: (PT) pre-trained (n=7) and (NA) naïve (n=7). Muscle damage was avoided in the pre-trained group by a 3 week gradual "ramp-up" program before both groups were subjected to an 11 week high force eccentric cycle ergometry program (20min, 3x/week). Work totals throughout the 11 week session were the same for both groups. The naïve group experienced damage, whereas the pre-trained group did not, as indicated by: >5 times higher plasma CK levels and self reporting of perceived soreness, fatigue and exertion. The observed increase in mean cross sectional area (and total muscle volume) was significant for both groups (p<0.01) but not different between groups (NA=7.0% and PT=6.1%). Strength increases were also observed for all subjects in the study (PT=20% and NA=24% improvement) again, no significant difference was found between the groups. Independent of any initial muscle damage, muscle volume increases and quadriceps strength increases were found to be the same for both groups indicating that a damaging bout may not be a prerequisite to muscle hypertrophy. Arizona Technology and Research Initiative Fund.
     
  2. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    Whoo hoo! Gain without pain!

    Who knew...?

    Time for a new book!
     
  3. dkm1987

    dkm1987 New Member

    <div>
    (TunnelRat @ May 09 2008,10:50)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Whoo hoo! Gain without pain!

    Who knew...?

    Time for a new book!</div>
    I've been saying this for a while now.
     
  4. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Active Member

    U know how u see bodybuilders hit themselves in the chest a few times during/after a workout? that's them trying to cause pain so that the muscle will grow.

    ;)
     
  5. pete69

    pete69 New Member

    Dan. I've been following a high frequency training program for quite a while now. I know it would frowned upon by most here, but i'm hitting my my whole body 6 days a week, utilizing mostly max-stim and cluster reps hybrid.

    I've been recovering fine and feel good each workout. But if someone were to overtrain themself like this, would it make sense to train in a concentric-only style. Since you have shown here and elsewhere damage isn't necessary for growth, eccentrics cause most of the muscle damage, and some research shows concentrics are as effective as eccentrics for hypertrophy, could a concentric only workout possibly allow faster recovery and a more frequent rise and fall in muscle protein synthesis, allowing more frequent training?

    Perhaps adding 1 normal workout a week with heavy, slow negatives to initiate satellite cell donation.
     
  6. dkm1987

    dkm1987 New Member

    Pete,

    I'm not saying eccentrics are bad, not at all, there appears to be some molecular events that occur moreso with eccentric but the question is ........is damage necessary?

    I have never tried conc only as I don't have the equipment that allows it but there are some studies that have with mixed results.

    It would be an interesting experiment though.
     
  7. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    I guess damage may not be necessary but it may be an inevitable consequence of heavy training for most of us. Oly lifters spend much of their time doing low rep concentric only work. They seem to grow just fine.

    I still get DOMS in various muscle groups after an Oly lifting session, so fast, concentric only movements seem to cause a fair amount of microtrauma too.
     
  8. FullDeplex

    FullDeplex New Member

    In the study it is stated that muscle damage accompanies an inflammatory response. Does this mean that muscle damage causes muscle soreness?

    I read that micro tears in humans were only proved to be present in Marathon runners and such. (I believe Stuart McRobert wrote this..not a great source, I know)

    So now my question is: Does muscle damage really cause muscle soreness? Or is it something else that causes it, for instance, the overuse of nerves?

    PS: The time I had no muscle soreness I made my best gains. So the conclusion of the research makes total sense to me.
     
  9. dkm1987

    dkm1987 New Member

    <div>
    (FullDeplex @ Jul. 14 2008,5:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">In the study it is stated that muscle damage accompanies an inflammatory response. Does this mean that muscle damage causes muscle soreness?

    I read that micro tears in humans were only proved to be present in Marathon runners and such. (I believe Stuart McRobert wrote this..not a great source, I know)

    So now my question is: Does muscle damage really cause muscle soreness? Or is it something else that causes it, for instance, the overuse of nerves?

    PS: The time I had no muscle soreness I made my best gains. So the conclusion of the research makes total sense to me.</div>
    No DOMS does not equal damage or vice versa. Yu and Malms had a great set of studies that looked extensively at this issue and it appears that DOMS may very well be an immunohistological response irregardless of overt damage.
     

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