Ephedrine, Caffine, and cardio on a bulk cycle?

T

Techo

New Member
Hey guys. I'm considering doing an E/C stack on my first bulk cycle. I just finished cutting, but I wouldn't mind losing a bit more. Also, I would be doing cardio - 45 min of running 3x a week burning 600-700 calories a shot.

I realize that bulking and cutting are rather opposite goals and should be seperate. However, could I get away w/continuing this cardio? I've just grown fond of walking up at 5 AM, as odd as it sounds, for a morning run at the gym.

Plus, E/C sound pretty effective. I've never used it before, but from the little I've read, a 25mg of E and 250mg of C 3-4 times a day should work for a while. I'm not looking for any long term usage and am a bit concerned of caffine addiction (which I may already be). Would I really need to commit to long term use of E/C as it is with CLA? From my understanding, Ephedrine HCL will still be available after the ban as it is only the natural substance in weight loss sups... I'd love to hear back any feed back you guys could add... I'm not very educated about E/C usage but there doesn't seem that much to it. Also, I'm still on Paxil so I'm not sure how that will react... Lastly, are you still considered a "natural lifter" if you take E?
 
I see no reason for using EC when bulking. It will ruin your appetite and wont cause you to gain less fat.
 
Honestly, you can do it all in terms of gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time. It's just easier to make it cut and dry "bulk" and "cut" not to mention keeping the calories balanced. I see nor reason why you couldn't use ephedrine, since it helps you to lift more intensely if you use it before a workout.

As for being a natural lifter with E/C, I would say so, but just to make sure, you better call up Jesse Helms :D
 
How about the cardio? I really like doing those runs in the morning... should I figure those 600+ calories burned into my diet? If so, how would I do it? Some of you must do cardio (besides HIIT) on bulking....
 
If you really intend to gain muscle, forget the cardio. It's counterproductive, and will only cut into your caloric surplus and steal calories that would otherwise be used to build LBM. I know the idea is to keep fat down or lose fat while while bulking, but the body is too smart to be fooled in such a way. Overall calorie balance is what's important.

The choice to use EC is up to you. (as was previously mentioned) If you find you tend to have trouble meeting caloric requirements while bulking, then forget it. Otherwise it might be of some use for its positive calorie partitioning properties, but also be prepared to eat a little extra to compensate for it. Personally I feel that you could take EC and still retain 'natural' status, but that's a judgement call. Most feel using hormonal substances (PH, AAS) is where the line is drawn.

I know you're having a hard time letting yourself eat more after a cutting cycle, but you're just gonna have to bite the bullet on this one. Either plan out definite bulk/cut cycles, or be content with painfully slow/no progress.

Think of it this way;
Either
A. Cut (maybe via UD2)
Maintain LBM, Lose 4-8lbs FM /month
B. Your plan
Gain 1-2lbs LBM , Lose 1-2lbs FM /month
(and this is pushing it)

Which plan yields the best results after a month?
(Plus admit it - you really don't like cardio that much)
 
Ok thanks for the great replies guys... I'm still open to any more suggestions if you want to add...

I was afraid you were going to say what you did KingProtein, but it must be the truth since that's all I've ever heard... Oh well. Actually, I really do enjoy cardio becuase it gives me 45 minutes to just think about things - a luxury I don't always get in my usually busy schedule. I know, I'm weird. =P
 
I agree with KingProtein about forgetting cardio. Cardio and hypertrophy are counterproductive. You shouldn't do cardio on an empty stomach anyway as you will use up some protein (as a fule source). With less muscle mass you will slow down your metabolism. Also, cardio works the slow twitch muscles, which mean your muscles wont be as powerful and/or strong because when you do weights you work the faster twitch muscles (unless of course you are doing super slows etc). You should also try doing HIIT when you do do your cardio. But not for 45 minutes.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You shouldn't do cardio on an empty stomach anyway as you will use up some protein (as a fule source).
Click to expand...

...but wouldn't a pre workout shake help in this case? That's what Bryan suggests - treat cardio just like a WO session. Have protein before and after.

About HIIT vs longer moderate cardio, I"m not even going to get in that debate. I started the longer cardio based on Lyle's advice to burn stubborn fat. Okay, so maybe I cut out the empty stomach/pre insane cardio burn part, but I did start the running in the morning as he suggested. Not sure if my running rate was ideal, but I got to 12% either way.

I'm going to take your advice and use that early morning cardio time for something else. Also bumped my calorie intake up to 2300 for bulking - yup, that's a bit more food then I realized =)
 
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