Is Repeating weights bad...

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Xcalibur

New Member
I know its allowed but is it OPTIMAL to repeat weights all the time e.g all weights are in KGS

Leg curls 40 45 45 50 50 55 55 60 60 65 65 70 70 75 75 80 80 85
Leg Exe 40 45 45 50 50 55 55 60 60 65 65 70 70 75 75 80 80 85
Squat 45 50 60 60 65 70 75 80 85
Calf Raises 40 45 50 55 55 60 60 65 65 70 70 75 75 80 80 85 85 90


Chins (-86k) W&N 60 55 50 50 45 45 40 40 35 35 30 30 25 25 20 20 15 15
Rows 30 30 35 35 40 40 45 45 50 50 55 55 60 60 65 65 70 70


Incline 3 pegs +bb 30 30 35 35 40 40 45 45 50 50 55 55 60 60 62 62 65 65
Dips (-86k) W&N 60 55 50 45 40 35 35 30 30 25 25 20 20 15 15 10 10 5

Shrugs 30 30 35 35 40 40 45 45 50 50 55 55 60 60 65 65 70 70
Lat Raises +bb 12 12 16 16 20 20 24 24 26 26 28 28
Rear Delts 12 12 16 16 20 20 24 24 25 25 30 30
Shoulder Press 25 30 35 35 40 40 45 45 50 50 55 55

Ab Machine 50 50 55 55 60 60 65 65 70 70 75 75 80 80 85 85 90 90
Nelson 5 5 5 10 0 10 10 10 10 15 15 15 15 15 20 20 20 20

Skull Crushers 12 12 15 15 18 18 20 20 22 22 24 24 26 26 28 28 30 30

DB Curl 24 0 0 0 30 30 40 (alternated with BB)
BB Curl 18 18 20 20 22 22 25 25 28 28 0 32 32 35 35


Just pasted out of my spreadsheet. ( The dips and chins are using a machine that takes some of your weight off so the weight thats shown is taken of my own weight which is 86kg 189lbs)


Any ideas of what to do to amke it optimal if its not ? since the machines i use go up only in 5kgs and other excersises that use DBs go up in 2.5 each so 5kg alltogether..
with a BB i can add smaller "biscuits" though but i cant use the BB for much ?


Or should i just keep the weights repeating each time...i like as near perfection as possible  
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To keep it simple, you're right it won't hurt. Is it optimal? I would imagine not, but if it's the best you can do because of limitations (in your case equipment) then it's the best you can do and in the end I doubt you will see a difference. Look at it this way the standard routine in HST has some zig zag, in which you are reducing a load back to a previous recorded load, this has little effect in the grand scheme of things so I doubt seriously either would running a full cycle of dups.
 
but why wouldent it be optimal ? Didnt Bryan say that even with the same load the muscle can grow for up to 2-4 weeks and the diminishing returns would occur and get stronger after the first few times of doing it,

But would doing the same weight aprox 48 hours apart just twice really make a difference than going up 2.5 kgs each time.

Im led to believe the muscle would not have adapted to the large increment of 5kgs the previous workout. Then just when it gets another of the same weight... bang another decent upgrade of 5kg load, im assuming the muscle would not get accustomed that quick?


Also i am planning to do this workout all in one session 3x week, would it be worth really trying to get a AM/PM split going ? what exactly is a sumation effect ;)
 
Here's why I think it might not be optimal.
Let's say that a muslces response to a certain weight is 100% the first time you use that weight. RBE is not an all or nothing event, so if you repeat that weight, you wouldn't get a 0% response vs. 100%, but you might get something like 20-30% response. However, if you increased the weight instead of repeating, you'd be back to 100% response to the new load.
Mind you, these percentages I'm using are just speculation, not hard numbers, but I think that's sort of what's going on.
Now, if you can't increment by a large enough amount then it's not enough of a new stimulus so you are better off just repeating the weight and making the larger increment next time.
Hope that made some sense.
By the way, I think zig-zagging is evil and I'm on a personal crusade to have it removed from HST! ;)
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Xcalibur @ May 16 2005,3:08)]what exactly is a sumation effect ;)
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It deals with the PS (protein synthesis) translation activity of the molecular and metabolic activity causing it. Basically some of the items cause an additive response when applying a load in a second bout within a specific time frame.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Xcalibur @ May 16 2005,3:08)]But would doing the same weight aprox 48 hours apart just twice really make a difference than going up 2.5 kgs each time.

Im led to believe the muscle would not have adapted to the large increment of 5kgs the previous workout.  Then just when it gets another of the same weight... bang another decent upgrade of 5kg load, im assuming the muscle would not get accustomed that quick?

Also i am planning to do this workout all in one session 3x week, would it be worth really trying to get a AM/PM split going ?
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Well see now you are answering your own question. We have already established it's fine to duplicate the weights and overall you will grow just fine.

You asked if it's optimal.

Splitting AM/PM is a way of getting more volume in, this is needed depending on your line of thought and actually by your conditioning. Most see sufficient if not very good growth by doing the prescribed 3X 1 daily session, whole body, for the first few cycles. If you see you need more volume (see the criteria Bryan established in the Sets and how many are needed FAQ) then going AM/PM is a good way of getting it.
 
So basicly it will give a response but if i was able to go up 2.5kgs each time it would give a bigger response ?

(since i cant go up in 2.5s due to my gym its a moot point but worthwhile knowing)

But i was thinking that due to it being a bigger increment it would take the muscle longer to get resistant to damage from that weight ? so its still getting microtrauma from each bout but not just 100%. but would you say its much of a % drop since your repeating the weights twice only ? but using larger increments ? anyone see what im getting at here ?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Xcalibur @ May 17 2005,4:59)]anyone see what im getting at here ?
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I think we all do and if someone knew the answer to the magical questions of "the best Increment" believe me it would plastered all over this site. So for now what we have to work with is a best guess, and that guess is the more trauma you can continually provide the best chance of growth, within reason of course. The question you are asking at this point can only be anserwed by you. What does it take for you to get enough trauma, what load progression continually provide this trauma, how much time under tension is required by you to receive this trauma? all these will have to be identified by you. Read the FAQ's on Increments and Sets, if you have already done so, it will give you a good idea on how to answer this for yourself.

As far as 100% vs. 50% vs. 25% again this is subjective and it requires knowing a starting point, IE the more deconditioned the more the responsiveness to load, but with each loading of the same load, the responsiveness does becomes less, we just don't know how much. There is a formula that was posted a long time ago that looked at RBE, but honestly without all the known parameters of the equation it does a normal person little. So go with your feelings, meaning the muscles feeling after a loading session, do you feel tight in the muscle worked, do you have DOMS, are you growing, these things albeit very subjective, are what we have to go with.
 
One way round the repeating weights problem is to create two separate workouts for your cycles.

I use 5kg increments too (2.5kg for dumbbells) and alternate workouts - e.g. incline db press, pull down, db shoulder press, incline db curls, skull crusher, and the next session would be dips, rows, machine shoulder press, concentration curls and one arm db extensions.

It doesn't completely get rid of the problem as there isn't a linear progression in increments between the two workouts but you get to use more exercises (which I like) and don't repeat weights.

My problem now is I'm going 6x a week...great way to get the 15s done in a week but will probably have to repeat weights to avoid a 4 week cycle! Or create 3 separate workouts...

cheers

rob
 
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