Multiple sets vs. multiple exercises

K

Kate

New Member
Prior to HST, I preferred supersets as part of my training. Some of my favorites: incline presses and flyes, close grip presses and nose crushers, leg extensions and walking lunges.

Supersets are efficient, feel great (to me at least
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), are good for keeping joints mobile, and have a nice metabolic effect.

Since HST is trying to set up a kind of "multiplicative effect" of repeated exercise, it made sense to do multiple sets of fewer exercises. Now that I have been reading O&G's posts, though, I've begun to wonder...

So, please share, guys. What do you think? I'd like some more input.

Thanks in advance!
Kate

If you've posted on this recently, please turn this lost old lady in the right direction.
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The search engine and I aren't seeing eye to eye today.
 
I prefer variety of different compound exercises, mostly for coverage and varying the MU recruitment pool in order to avoid excessive CNS fatigue. It's really about changing elbow angles for the pulling and pressing movements than grip widths (which only vary the stretch-tension elements of the same exercise.) Going from wide-grip to close-grip doesn't add a lot of benefit besides metabolic work.

But, really, a lot of it is just preference and boredom control. Deadlifts, squats and OL-lifts are irreplaceable, which is why Big Four-style routines work so well.

Isolation movements work along different principles, though. You choose an exercise to stretch/strain. You may choose an exercise to burn. You don't need to do more than that.

cheers,
Jules
 
So Vicious, an example for chest:

A:
Bench 2 set
Flys 2 set
Pec Dec 2 set

B:
Bench 1 set
Dips 1 set
Incline Flys 1 set
Cable crossovers 1 set
Pec Dec 1 set
What else is there? Lol.

I thought all that stuff about hitting the muscle from different angles and recruiting different fibers was BS, and that the muscle contracts as a whole? This is why i've stuck with the basics all this time ...

Either way the basics have worked.
 
Kate

Quite like you I like supersets, they are effective and produce results, what I do is use the suppersetting part of the exercise as teh second set for whatever part I am working on.

Obviously the big four are irreplaceable, but I am still mustering the courage to try a program with just the basics and maybe a little more sets, curls and nose cruchers are soooo tempting that the workout just does not feel complete without it
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Fausto
 
i am starting to find a moderate number of exercises and more sets works well... i guess it really depends on your exercises selection, ultimately.

i am using squat,dips,chins and milatary press and enjoying it!!

2 sets each.. which is not too too much, i might up it to three sets and add 1-2 more excercises.

experiment n see what you like better i guess.. perosonally i like the compounds...
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (vicious @ Mar. 10 2005,8:26)]varying the MU recruitment pool in order to avoid excessive CNS fatigue.  

It's really about changing elbow angles for the pulling and pressing movements than grip widths (which only vary the stretch-tension elements of the same exercise.)  
Click to expand...
Jules! Seems I always find a diamond in your posts.
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Today there were two. I seem to forget to factor in the effect on the nervous system at times...

The light bulb really came on with the elbow angles, so in case this might help someone else: If you focus on grip widths, you are thinking two-dimensionally. Intuitively, you should get at least as good a change in direction of force on the muscle with considerably less stress on the underlying joints by varying elbow angle rather than grip width.
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Pays to think 3D!

Fausto, my friend
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Your solution is simple and beautiful and just what I was looking for. Now I just need to go test some maxes for the supersets.

Great posts so far, guys. Anyone else?
 
Okay, so just "thinking out loud" here....

I may not even need to worry about testing the second exercise of a given superset. If I add said exercise in the tens as a stretch point isolation exercise, the stretch will be more important than the load or the number of reps. I may be able to guesstimate based on previous experience...

What do you think?

Curiouser and curiouser,
Kate
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I thought all that stuff about hitting the muscle from different angles and recruiting different fibers was BS, and that the muscle contracts as a whole? This is why i've stuck with the basics all this time ...
Click to expand...

Working from different angles usually changes emphasis of different muscles. For example, the incline press shifts recruitment away from the pec lower to the front delts. Chins emphasize lats. Upright rows emphasize delts. Etc. etc. Dips are a superior pec exercise to flat-press because the lower pecs are contractined with a a greater stretch than normal bench.

Changing grip widths alters the stretch-tension relationship for the synergist muscles. Wider means more stretch; closer means less. The close-grip bench press works the pecs just a normal bench, but because the pecs are working in a very contracted state, they don't strained all that much to grow. You'll get more of a burn with your close-grip presses, close-grip chins, etc. than the wider. You'll get more strain with your wide-grip. For modulating progressive strain throughout a HST cycle, you want to go from close/moderate-grip to wide-grip.

Personally, I think adding the same exercises with varying widths is not a good idea unless you're micromanaging your routine for metabolic work vs. mechanical strain, or working on some strength work. In my opinion, it's just used incorrectly.

cheers,
Jules
 
Ok, so which is better for hypertrophy...

1. Doing 2 sets of Dips for workout A, 2 sets of inlcine press/fies for workout B, incrementing every workout; A1, B1, A2, B2 etc.

2. Doing one set of Dips, one set of inclines every workout (supersets or standard), and incrementing every other workout...


??

Thanks :)
 
In my opinion, Jester, #2 but incrementing every workout, assuming you are planning the standard 6 workouts per rep range. That way you recruit more muscle fibers every day that you workout.
 
I've found that strength wise, multiple exercises helps a lot. Like Jules said, the recruitment patterns differ. For example, lets say I have two choices:

A. Bench, Bench
B. Dip, Bench

I've found that on my second set, which will be bench in either case, I can have a more productive set on plan B, even if the same "intensity" is put into the first set. I just find that I lose more reps between sets of the same exercise than sets of different ones.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]In my opinion, Jester, #2 but incrementing every workout, assuming you are planning the standard 6 workouts per rep range. That way you recruit more muscle fibers every day that you workout.
Click to expand...

I should have clarified that, I do 12 workouts (6x a week) per rep range.
 
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