My first two weeks on HST and the nxt few

[ian]

Right, heres whats happened (and there are +s and -s)...

Finished the 15s and had to split my routine in two and change it to four days as it was alot to do (at the end of the 15s).

The change in my stomach has been amazing, I havnt measured anything, but you could barely see my abs a couple of weeks ago now and my 6packs well better already.

However the downside is that I dont look as massive, now you could say that thats because iv lost fat, but my shoulders and chest are unbelievably deflated (my chest looks really poor now).

My mates moaning at me to go back to the old ways and I am tempted coz i dont wana start liftn light weights again and I like it when I exhaust my chest and it blows up, but im gona keep plugn on.

Right what I want to know is...

am I supposed to feel deflated, my muscles dont look big or pumped to me (that may partially just be in my head), is this right???

+ I no its not supposed to b about the pain, but I have literally never felt anything after the workout. Will this change?

Im gona measure myself now and compare myself between now and nxt week, dont know wether I can carry on if anything gets smaller, especially something like arm, where theres no fat to lose.

 

[imported_dkm1987]

15s are taxing metabolically, up your carbs to the last week of tens then reduce them through the fives (if you start getting too fat). Upping carbs will help with the deflated look, you probably just aren't used to the 15's and used more glycogen than before. Hence fat loss and deflated look.

 

[ian]

Quote[/b] (dkm1987 @ Mar. 06 2005,3:57)]you probably just aren't used to the 15's and used more glycogen than before

Il agree with that + as I say my routine started off bout 25sets, now its half that.

As far as having more carbs to help the deflated look, does that mean if I eat more in the nxt few days il get it back???

It would normally be my opinion (I cant claim to be a HST expert, but I normally know my stuff in the gym) that my chest(this is the example il use) simply feels like I havnt worked it out for 3weeks.

I keep coming back to the same point that I need more than one set of chest to feel anything like worked, not to mention I feel like I need to go for my maxs more than once every two weeks. I know I sound like im moaning, but if this is the case im losing years of hard work as we speak. I also know that your gona tell me the science says I dont need to kill myself, but surely I need to do more than this. I mean, someone like a builder lifts light (and varying) weights everyday, but they look no better than anyone else

 

[ian]

Also, I do eat a lot of carbs with every meal (at least 6 a day) + i have carb drinks before and after workouts. I was putting on weight (maybe a bita fat) before HST, so I find it a bit strange that now I have gone from too much carbs, down through maintenance to depletion of carbs.

 

[imported_dkm1987]

Any workout that uses the anaerobic system uses glycogen, now compound this with doing multiple sets of 15's and yes your need for glycogen increases. If you aren't getting enough glycogen (from carbs) then you seem to appear flat, not full. Now let's say you were getting enough during your old training methods, you yourself said that when hitting the 15's max it started kicking your tush, why? Because the 15's are very taxing. Can your carb needs change that dramatically, YES they can. It's a simple process; for every contraction you do you use energy, this chemical energy is transported in the form of activated phosphorylated molecules, primarily adenosine triphosphate (ATP). Energy release to accomplish muscle contraction is provided by the splitting off of a phosphate group from adenosine triphosphate (ATP), which converts the ATP to adenosine diphosphate (ADP). Phosphocreatine enables ADP to be converted back to ATP, thereby re-supplying the muscle fiber with energy and permitting the contraction to continue for brief periods. In a glycotic contraction these energy sources use glycogen. If you are using a high number of reps your need for glycogen increases thus your need for higher energy sources of carbohydrates increases. This is the whole reasoning for increasing carbs during the 15's then tapering back down when the metabolic work decreases.

Yes, in some cases once you replenish your glycogen stores you tend to look fuller.

Then do more than one set. There is nothing, as has been pointed out before, that says a trained lifter going from 25 sets will see any benefit to reducing that number down to one.

A lot of people "feel" HST doesn't do them justice, especially people who have trained for years using High Volume or High Intensity, they feel HST is nonsense, but also these are the same people who give it and go back to banging their head against the wall for a life time and show no gains for it. You have to give it a chance and most don't really "GET IT" until they have done a few cycles.

Nobody has to be a HST EXPERT to see gains, use the program, making needed modifications for your own body and level of previous training that's all there is to it.

Most importantly understand your energy needs throuhgout the cycle.

 

[Fausto]

Ian

It sounds to me that you are being somewhat impatient, you cannot expect to grow that much on 15's or even to feel pumped up as if you were doing heavier weights.

This part of the cycle is a preparation for the later heavier loads and that is the way it should be looked at.

If you ask me, seeing the 6 pack coming back is already a sign of metamorphosis that many of us would like to see that early

.

Follow DKM's instructions and you can't go wrong, but for pete'e sake

be patient

We are not going to insist that you don't give up on HST as that is your choice

we will however give yoou the right advice and ask you to just try out the full cycle at least and then make a decision.

Have you seen the dietary chart that Bryan put up a few years ago, that is not a bad guide line.

See you on teh other side

Ciao

Fausto

 

[Jester]

Ian, I'm from the same school as you - high intensity and volume, 20-25 sets per body part, 5 diff. sessions a week (or there abouts).

I hit HST with 2 sets on all muscle groups, 4 sets for calves, and that was @ 3x a week upper, 3x lower. You won't FEEL anywhere near as sore, and why is that? Because what you FEEL is neurological. HST isn't about fatiguing your nervous system, it's about causing muscle growth. Use that as your barometer for success/failure. Like Dan (dkm) said, if you don't like it then go back to getting nothing<->not much from the old style.

And finally, your carb requirement will skyrocket in 15s and possibly during the 10s too. It is like doing weighted-cardio, and bare in mind that glycogen levels take ~3days to fully replenish, so you won't see your full size until your next SD period.

 

[BIZ]

Ian:
Don't worry too much about the feeling from weight training. You should be able to keep a tight feeling, but not necessarily sore, if your load, volume, and nutrition are all on the same page. As Dan has said, more carbs during the 15's will help you maintain or even increase muscle fullness. As a bodybuilder you know that many of the glycogen supercompensation techniques employed the last week of a show are strikingly similar to what HST looks like in the 15's. You deplete glycogen by doing a couple sets of 15 for each muscle group (usually a total body workout), do so for a few days and then load up the carbs to try and take advantage of the ability of the muscle to hold more glycogen than it normally would, so it looks fuller and tighter. And what happens when you either forget to load the carbs or mistime, you look flat, smooth, and feel weak. Same things applies to the 15's if an HST cycle. You keep depleting glycogen over and over without properly refueling and you end up looking flat. If getting carbs in is a bit tiresome to worry about right now, just make sure that you get the Lion's share of it right after your workout. Once you hit the 10's and 5's, you will no longer need to load as much.

 

[ian]

Nice one guys, I know im being impatient, but I thought all bodybuilders were as insecure as me, isnt that why we all subject ourselves to such pain??

 

[Anti-Hero]

Wow. Amazing thread. This is something that I just went through. Not with HST yet, currently I'm on SD before I start my first routine .. but from just getting my maxes for the 15's, 10's, and 5's, I felt great after lifting but this past weekend, right after getting my maxes I felt weak and small. So I said "fxck it" to my cutting "diet" and loaded up on complex carbs early in the day and lots of protein and veggies at night. Did that Saturday and Sunday and as soon as I started eating like that I felt strong, my muscles looked a lot fuller, etc. It must have been from getting my maxes in the 15's and 10's, and then a HIIT Cardio session on Tuesday in between that really kicked my @$$ with carbs. So now I know that was the reason. Thanks guys!!!

 

[ian]

See... some people appreciate my threads (even if its not my bit they like).

Right heres a question, and im not moaning im just asking....

Is it possible that some people have higher thresholds to stimulate muscle than others?

ie one set of chest might make Johns chest grow , but it wont help dave one little bit.

 

[BIZ]

Quote[/b] (ian @ Mar. 07 2005,6:21)]Right heres a question, and im not moaning im just asking....
Is it possible that some people have higher thresholds to stimulate muscle than others?
ie one set of chest might make Johns chest grow , but it wont help dave one little bit.

Yes.

 

[imported_devient]

i felt the same as you ian,
my chest work out b4 was a hard n heavy 12 sets
of press's 4 - 6 reps all to failure...

ive just started my second week of 15's

what i did last week is slow all the reps right down

peak/midway contractions
and put 100% effort and concentration into each rep

my fourth work out yesterday did not feel waisted, was pumped up and aching like a ..............
btw im eating
375g carbs...body weight of 210 lbs

 

[Kate]

Quote[/b] (ian @ Mar. 06 2005,5:40)]I keep coming back to the same point that I need more than one set of chest to feel anything like worked, not to mention I feel like I need to go for my maxs more than once every two weeks.

Ian! Cortisol does not help you grow, no matter what system you are using. (You worry too much)

You have commited to a cycle of HST. Can you hang in there for six more weeks and watch what happens? In the meanwhile, a few things to keep in mind:

1. "Feel" does not build muscle. Yes, it is a part of the whole process, but "feeling" that an exercise (or an exercise program) is working, doesn't make it so.

2. There's not a darn thing wrong with adding in an additonal exercise, just because you like it, especially if it will help you to stop worrying.

3. Your mate has a vested interest in his own workout program. He doesn't want your success to prove him wrong. Not saying he is intentionally undermining your efforts, but I certainly wouldn't go to him for advice on HST.

4. There is a way to stay closer to your maxes, by setting up a less linear progression of reps and by allowing the rep speed to end your set. However, this is really about fine tuning a system that you don't yet understand. No offense intended, but I have found that it takes three times through to really hit ones "mental stride" with this program. For a lot of folks, there is a "light-bulb coming on moment"... it does not happen from reading the FAQ's, but rather from running the program. The beautiful thing is that if you follow the recipe, your muscles will be growing long before your brain figures out why.

5. I agree with my friend Fausto. This program isn't for everyone, not even for everyone whose primary goal is hypertrophy. I think it is the most efficient way to acheive that goal, but it is certainly not the only way. You ask a lot of good questions and that helps lots of other folks learn. But if this is really making you nuts and you'd prefer to get back to what you're used to, we'll move along without you, no hard feelings.

6. I also agree with the guys about the carbs. Eat, eat, eat! Full body workouts at 15 reps (I often start with 18) makes me wake in the middle of the night starving.

Dont worry, be happy!
Kate

 

[liegelord]

I agree with Kate, just keep going and make sure you eat enough. It's easy to slack off of calories as you gain. This happened to me the past week. I forgot that as one gains weight your calories per day have to increase.

 

[Anti-Hero]

So how much is one going through SD currently (like myself) recommended to eat now? Like the same amount if I was lifting, more, or less? I really like my new diet of complex carbs at every meal up until 3-5PM then just protein and veggies. That ok? Sorry I kinda hijacked ..

 

[skinnyman]

you should eat at maintenance or a little above maintenance. You do not need the same amount when you're working out because... you're not working out anyway. I didn't lose any weight when i ate a little above maintenance.. depends on you. But i found it useful to eat my bulking diet when my 15s are getting near. 15s make me starve!!

wait for some more replies