My plan during my next HST cycle

Discussion in 'Diet & Nutrition' started by cilius, Dec 16, 2002.

  1. cilius

    cilius New Member

    Hi everyone,

    I got a crazy idea. For my next HST cycle I want to control my calories pretty strict (for the part coming after Christmas anyway). The main purpose is to gain some quality pounds while keeping the body fat low (currently around 10% after SD). My diet may be a bit controversial, but take a look – and any comments are more than welcome since it is an experiment from my part as well.

    Well from the HST we know that protein synthesis is elevated the next 36 hours after working out, so I am planning to keep calories high in that period of time, and dropping a bit under maintenance until a couple of hours before the next workout (Sunday in deficit as well). To simplify matter a bit, I workout around 12, so that the time in a calorie deficit is while I’m a sleep. A workout takes around 1-1½ hours. Here is the plan:

    Monday: deficit until 1100 (workout from 1200 to 1330) and a surplus until bedtime (2400)
    Tuesday: surplus until bedtime, but I’ll have my last meal at 2100
    Wednesday: as Monday
    Thursday: as Tuesday
    Friday: as Monday
    Saturday: as Tuesday
    Sunday: deficit all day long

    My nutrition pre/during/post workout follows Lyle’s recommendations with:

    Pre workout: 20 grams of carbs and 20 grams of whey
    During: 30 grams of carbs
    Post workout: 80 grams of carbs (20 of them fructose) and 30 grams of casein

    I’ll have another meal an hour after working out consisting of pretty much the same nutritional amounts.

    I have estimated my daily BMR to 2450, where I add 900 calories to start with on workout days (the highreppin is killing me), and another 500 calories to be sure to be in a surplus. Tuesdays (etc.) I’ll just add 500 calories to my BMR and a bit more if my activity level is significant different from average. As mentioned I’ll stop eating at 2100 on Tuesdays (etc.) but I am having a bit of trouble estimating my calorie expenditure while I sleep… on Sundays I will work around a calorie deficit on 400. That is close to 16% of my BMR…
    I'm 190cm (6.2 feet) and 93kg (205 pounds)

    Questions that’s been pounding my mind:
    For how long do you need to be in calorie deficit to lose body fat given that your glycogen stores are full?
    Will the calorie deficit eat away the gains I’ve made during the week?
    Does my body even realize it’s in deficit while I’m a sleep, or is my combustion to low to deplete anything?
  2. vicious

    vicious New Member

    I don't think there's a direct correlation. Having an abundance of glycogen seems to spare protein loss, or rather lets the body know that there's a ready source of energy should other channels be unavailable.

    Managing your calories like this is a good idea, some people (Calkid for example) talked about doing this. You'll want to drop your carbs (or eat almost zilcho) during that "8 hour diet window" as well if you want to lose some fat. I believe the way you have it set up will be very successful.

    What I would do is to split the 12 meals along the 2450 calories maintenance, and eat 11 meals as such (2245 calories total.) Then I'd eat a 1000 calories right after the workout with as little fat as possible. Half protein. Half carbs.

    The likelihood of conversion to fat is very, very low. But, you'll obliterate the cortisol levels, replenish glycogen stores and create a pretty high insulin environment. For the other 11 meals, I'd just eat Zone, which would steadily drop the insulin levels into a "sane point", and only steadily use something of the glycogen stores.

    Any meal past the 36th hour, you have the option of dropping either the fats or carbs for some fat loss. I would probably drop the carbs, as to increase the insulin sensitivty.


  3. Calkid

    Calkid New Member

    Speaking of which, I found a VERY interesting and pertinent study.

    Here's the article:

    Here's the abstract:

    So a conclusion we can draw is that having a huge carb meal post-workout can almost totally negate the thermogenic effects of exercise.

    How does this apply to you? Well, we know that protein synthesis in the muscle peaks at about 24 hours and that if protein is available during exercise it will be taken into the muscles. What you could do, then, is let your subsequent meal be low in carbs, and then make the following one more carb-heavy. This way you could burn a good deal of fat due while still having decently high levels of muscle growth. Just make sure you still eat a surplus of calories.

    This study was, however, based on 60 minutes of treadmill. So this application to weight training is purely guesswork. Think this is a good idea?

  4. cilius

    cilius New Member

    So you would stay at maintenance throughout the 36 hours except right after the workout (right?). A fellow enthusiast is going to try something similar from January, and it is more critical for him not to gain any fat... at which your proposal seems a bit safer than mine. Personally I want to be certain to gain mass during the cycle, so I’ll probably stick to the plan first laid out.

    Keeping the carbs and fat low during Sunday seems pretty obvious, even though I haven’t really thought about it. But is it important as long as you are in a calorie deficit?
    Does anyone have an idea of how big the depletion of my glycogen stores will be during Sunday, and how long it will take to refill it pre workout Monday? In Lyle’s interview from, he mentioned that having your glycogen stores depleted, will slow down protein synthesis post workout.

    But my main concern post workout is to minimize breakdown of protein, and help the protein synthesis on the way (with respect to the above mentioned)… But my guinea pig might just be put through that [​IMG]
  5. vicious

    vicious New Member

    Ah, I misunderstood your intention. I just assumed you wanted to have it both ways, so to speak.

    What you'll also want to do is ramp your caloric intake slightly. Say you never want to go below 2000 calories. Split this 6 ways and that amounts to a "low" meal of 333 calories, which will be your last major meal before the workout. Then you would steadily ramp up the calories, considering your sleep cycles, until for those 6 meals you are in the 3000 calorie range. You could use that 1000 calorie post-WO "spike" and try to alot the remaining 2000 calories along a smoother ramp.

    Another consideration, especially for the 1000 calorie spike, is to use protein pulse feeding. I however don't have a good idea of actually putting this to practical use.

    While true, it's also somewhat of a
    generalization. "Depletion" is a relative word, because the average person can store 2000 calories in glycogen in their muscle. The issue, I think, is getting the cortisol levels low enough, the insulin levels high enough, and the blood sugar levels fairly steady in order for the proper mileu to occur for protein synthesis. This required carbohydrates, which can be restored fairly efficiently through those glycogen stores, but eating actual food better accomplishes this.

    Yes and no . . . The issue is whether you want to increase insulin sensitivity (by avoiding carbs) before workout or avoid that the ingested fat being converted into stored fat. I favor dropping carbs, but then your glycogen levels will matter as well as your hormonal chemistry. Eating more protein raises glucagon, which siphons glycogen away from the muscle and liver. Now if your muscles are high in glycogen levels, this is fine and you can be fairly certain of not losing muscle tissue during that deficit. If not, then you might lose a little.


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