Newbie Question: Weight increases with A/B split?

Discussion in 'Basic Training Principles and Methods' started by Surfrider, Sep 14, 2007.

  1. Surfrider

    Surfrider New Member

    I still have a questions about setting up the weight increases, even after reading the "How To" articles. My questions themselves are fairly simple, but it's difficult to explain them and be perfectly clear, so I'll use examples. Also, in the interest of minimizing confusion, I've posted two separate threads. I hope this is ok. [​IMG]



    I am using two different routines in this cycle, alternating every other day; i.e., A on Monday, B on Wednesday, A on Friday, then B the next Monday, et cetera. How do I set up the increases? For example, if I was only doing ONE routine in this cycle, my progression with 10-pound increments might look like this:

    <div></div><div id="CODEHEAD">CODE</div><div id="CODE">
    Exercise Day 1 Day 2 Day 3 Day 4 Day 5 Day 6
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Squats 100 110 120 130 140 150

    -OR-

    Exercise Day 1 Day 2 Day 3 Day 4 Day 5 Day 6
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Deads 100 110 120 130 140 150
    </div>

    HOWEVER, since I'm using both of these exercises to work the same muscle group, only on different days, should I set the increases up like &quot;normal&quot; then just skip every other day, therefore doubling my increase each time I do a particular exercise, like this....
    <div></div><div id="CODEHEAD">CODE</div><div id="CODE">
    Exercise Day 1 Day 2 Day 3 Day 4 Day 5 Day 6
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Squats 100 xxx 120 xxx 140 xxx
    Deads xxx 110 xxx 130 xxx 150
    </div>

    ...OR, should I still only increase my weight by 10-pounds each time I do the exercises, and simply decrease the difference between my starting and finishing weights, like this.....?
    <div></div><div id="CODEHEAD">CODE</div><div id="CODE">
    Exercise Day 1 Day 2 Day 3 Day 4 Day 5 Day 6
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Squats 130 xxx 140 xxx 150 xxx
    Deads xxx 130 xxx 140 xxx 150
    </div>


    I hope I was clear enough. If not, please let me know what I need to clarify, and I will do so promptly.

    Thanks! [​IMG]

    -Surfrider
     
  2. colby2152

    colby2152 New Member

    Generally, larger increments induces greater hypertrophy.
     
  3. Martin Levac

    Martin Levac New Member

    Don't worry about a slight variation in load increments between alternate exercises. An example below:

    (from my actual current cycle)

    kg

    DL

    65 xx 70 xx 75 xx
    80 xx 85 xx 90 xx
    95 xx 100 xx 105 xx
    105 xx 105 xx 105 xx

    SQ

    xx 50 xx 55 xx 60
    xx 65 xx 70 xx 75
    xx 80 xx 85 xx 90
    xx 90 xx 90 xx 90

    As we can see, my RM's are slightly different between DL and SQ. I see no problem because I treat each exercise and its corresponding RM independently. It may appear that I load my legs a bit more with the deadlift when in fact I go much lower in the ROM with the squat such that I must use a lighter load for the squat. A reduced ROM allows a greater load while a longer ROM loads the muscle more where it is weaker (mechanical disadvantage) in its ROM.
     
  4. Surfrider

    Surfrider New Member

    Mr. Levac,

    Thanks for the reply, but I wonder if I'm missing something here....is repeating weights in the same mesocycle not contrary to the idea of progressive load, and is progressive load not one of the key principles behind HST?

    Thanks for your help. [​IMG]
     
  5. Martin Levac

    Martin Levac New Member

    I thought the same thing when I started training. I changed my mind.

    The load will remain effective at stimulating a growth response for a while. After some time, it stops being effective and growth stops. Before that happens, progress the load. For heavy loads, we can start pretty light and progress each workout. For light loads, we can't do the same because we'd have to start too light for it to be effective. Instead, we start with a heavier load, repeat it a few times and progress every other workout or even every week. It's all a function of the effective range of progression between the lightest and heaviest load within the same exercise. It's also a function of the effective increment amplitude. Adding 1lbs increment won't do much to mitigate RBE (repeated bout effect) but adding 10lbs will elicit a sufficient response.

    But don't take my word for it, read the forums for more examples and opinions on the subject. Read the FAQs as well.
     
  6. Surfrider

    Surfrider New Member

    <div>
    (Martin Levac @ Sep. 15 2007,19:24)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Read the FAQs as well.</div>
    I must have missed that part. My bad. [​IMG]

    Thanks for the guidance though.
     
  7. go with the second code. i had that same question but someone already answered that for me. funny thing was that i asked this question about 2-3days ago.
     
  8. windjammer

    windjammer New Member

    But what if the two exercises have completely different RM's? Say I do tricep extensions on workout A and dips on workout B, they have completely different weights for each day. So it is impossible to progress the load every workout. Now I am confused again, after my second HST cycle is nearly complete...
     
  9. Martin Levac

    Martin Levac New Member

    <div>
    (windjammer @ Oct. 22 2007,01:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">But what if the two exercises have completely different RM's? Say I do tricep extensions on workout A and dips on workout B, they have completely different weights for each day. So it is impossible to progress the load every workout. Now I am confused again, after my second HST cycle is nearly complete...</div>
    They are different motions with different mechanical demands. One is an isolation movement with a single muscle involved while the other is a compound movement with multiple muscles involved. A multi jointed, multi muscle exercise allows a greater weight to be lifted. But the load on each individual muscle is probably the same as the isolation movement for the same respective RM. This means that your 8RM for triceps extension probably loads the triceps just as much as your 8RM for dips.

    Conversely, a single jointed, single muscle movement only allows a light weight to be lifted. Try it, see how much you can lift with your triceps extension and your dips. Compare.

    A similar comparison can be done with similar movements through different ranges of motion. Like the squat versus the deadlift, for example. One allows a greater weight but the other allows a greater ROM. The end result is probably the same load on the legs either way because of the different mechanical demands.
     
  10. faz

    faz Active Member

    stick with this one its easier to workout and just as effective.
    Exercise Day 1 Day 2 Day 3 Day 4 Day 5 Day 6
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Squats 100 110 120 130 140 150

    -OR-

    Exercise Day 1 Day 2 Day 3 Day 4 Day 5 Day 6
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Deads 100 110 120 130 140 150
     
  11. windjammer

    windjammer New Member

    What if I am doing a split routine with incline and flat bench? My RM for incline is obviously slightly lower than the flat bench, so on alternating days the weights will not load progressively, and the two exercises are nearly identical. Is this a bad idea?
     
  12. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    <div>
    (windjammer @ Nov. 07 2007,22:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">What if I am doing a split routine with incline and flat bench? My RM for incline is obviously slightly lower than the flat bench, so on alternating days the weights will not load progressively, and the two exercises are nearly identical. Is this a bad idea?</div>
    No, it won't matter in the slightest.

    Think of the progression as occurring over the course of the whole cycle. A few ups and downs or repeated weights here and there won't make a jot of difference in the overall scheme. You start with relatively light loads and you will end up using heavy loads.

    In your example, your tris and pecs will be worked hard one session, then not-so-hard the next, then harder again as you alternate exercises but overall the loads are going up each week and your tris and pecs will be working harder over the course of the cycle.
     
  13. question guys. assuming if i were to use A/B split
    in my nxt cycle (6th), eg. split A- inlince bench
    maxed at 180ibs (5s) &amp; then split B - flat bench
    (totally new exercise w no idea of my rep
    ranges) do I use e incline bench poundage as
    gauge? (cause different ROM &amp; so prob diff
    loads)

    If this is not e way to do it then how?
    I'm in my SD now. I'm afraid the old exercises
    in split A would look way different in poundages
    compared to split B. imagine a 180 ibs incline
    bench (5s) vs say erm 150 ibs flat bench (5s)
    then won't i be forever playing catching up??  [​IMG]

    edit: i know LoL answered it but i dun kinda get it.
    slow. sorry. [​IMG]
     
  14. colby2152

    colby2152 New Member

    <div>
    (hotterdog @ Jun. 19 2008,4:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">question guys. assuming if i were to use A/B split
    in my nxt cycle (6th), eg. split A- inlince bench
    maxed at 180ibs (5s) &amp; then split B - flat bench
    (totally new exercise w no idea of my rep
    ranges) do I use e incline bench poundage as
    gauge? (cause different ROM &amp; so prob diff
    loads)

    If this is not e way to do it then how?
    I'm in my SD now. I'm afraid the old exercises
    in split A would look way different in poundages
    compared to split B. imagine a 180 ibs incline
    bench (5s) vs say erm 150 ibs flat bench (5s)
    then won't i be forever playing catching up?? [​IMG]

    edit: i know LoL answered it but i dun kinda get it.
    slow. sorry. [​IMG]</div>
    Incline bench will have a lower max load than bench press, so it is safe to do that. You can test your RM's as you go through the cycle. It may be worth it to actually use 110% of your Incline Bench Press loads for Flat Bench Press.

    You won't be playing catch up because the exercises are completely different. The force normal to your chest should be the same between the exercises. That force is not the same as the load.
     

Share This Page