No Bulking; No Cutting

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]There's so much science and so many experts sporting answers to that dilemma, and it's a dang seesaw battle. It's seriously irritating, because no one really has any concrete answer.
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I'm of similar opinion. Lately, I ask myself "What would John Berardi (not) do?" and usually find my answers that way. ;)

cheers,
Jules
 
Wait Jules so, you agree or disagree with Berardi?
dozingoff.gif
 
post from mr tolson to this topic...

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]FWIW, separating carbs and fat isn't going to be of benefit in my opinion, for the following reasons:

1. Eating carbohydrates without fat will not lessen the chance of fat storage. It is now known that, in the case of caloric excess, carbohydrates can be readily converted to fat via de novo lipogenesis.

2. Eating fat without carbohydrates shouldn't make a great deal of difference either, assuming the same amount of calories. There are multiple mechanisms for fat storage that are independent of insulin. If you have lower insulin levels over a long period of time you will lose fat, but separating carbs and fat isn't going to reduce your total insulin levels, just make them lower for some parts of the day and higher in others.

3. What we want is stable blood sugar levels for most of the day. Coingestion of fats and carbohydrates helps with this, as fat will generally decrease the glycemic and insulin response to a meal. If you separate carbs and fat, you will have lower insulin/blood sugar levels for some parts of the day and higher levels for others; it is this roller coaster ride which is precisely what we want to avoid.

4. I believe that the reason people often experience results from such diets is not because of the macronutrient manipulation per se, it is because it forces them to avoid the worst foods, which are generally high in both carbohydrates and fats, whereas healthy foods have a tendency to be high in only one or two of the macronutrients. Take a list of some of the healthiest foods and their predominant macronutrients:

Vegetables (carbohydrates, sometimes fat)
Fruit (carbohydrates)
Meat (protein, fat)
Low fat dairy (carbohydrates, protein)
Low GI grains (carbohydrates)
Protein powders
Healthy oils

The only real exception is beans and nuts, although these still tend to be particularly high in two of the macronutrients. In contrast, almost every junk food is high in both carbs and fats. So, IMO, it is safe to say that one doesn't have to worry about separating carbs and fat, but one should worry about just eating clean.
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Tom Treutlein @ Dec. 25 2004,8:54)]There's so much science and so many experts sporting answers to that dilemma, and it's a dang seesaw battle. It's seriously irritating, because no one really has any concrete answer.
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there is no concrete awnser in a biological system
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Nemesis7884 @ Dec. 25 2004,4:56)]post from mr tolson to this topic...
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I wouldn't quote anything that guy says. The info he gives out is down right dangerous b/c he doesn't understand a lot of the concepts he writes about. Just cuts-and-pastes knowledge from the web.
 
I've never really bulked or cut in the past, and I just wanted to share my experiences. In the past year and a half, I went from 6' 165 to 187 staying right around 12% bodyfat (6-pack is visible when relaxed, waist is around 33 inches). This included a almost two months where I had a terrible case of mono, couldn't lift, and lost a lot of weight. I used the 5x5 routine for most of the first year, and I've been using HST for about the past 6 months.

For my diet, I just concentrate on eating clean foods (oats, brown rice, wheat bread, chicken, lean beef, beans, almonds, vegetables, fruits, etc.) whenever I feel hungry. I typically eat in the neighborhood of 6 meals a day which works out to about 3500-4000 calories on the average day. I have a really fast metabolism so my level of maintenance calories is above that of a normal person. I drink milk and eat cheese but I try hard to avoid empty carbohydrates. I do however add some sauces like mayo and barbecue sauce to make eating all that protein tolerable. So I don't eat 100% clean, but I try to do the best I can. I don't really worry about macronutrient cycling and instead just try to eat balanced meals. In general, my meals are along the lines of 35%P 35%F 30%C, as I find this keeps my energy levels high. I also make sure to get some dextrose post workout. I'm only 20 and I like to have a good time, so I do drink 1-3 times per week. That's pretty much my only real vice. I don't really ever do formal cardio, although I like to play intramural sports and stuff.

This diet has worked very well for me. I intend to get up to 195-198 at 12% in the same way that I've been training/eating and then finally drop down to around 190 at 9-10%. At some point I will need to do some cutting, but I'm much happier keeping the abs at least somewhat visible while bulking a little bit slower.
 
One further caveat to my post. From the results of my friends, it seems clear that alternating bulk and cut cycles add mass at a rate that is faster overall than what I've described. However, it is not my intention to get 20" inch guns or compete in bodybuilding. I'm more interested in a muscular, athletic, and lean build (190 at 10%) than being a huge freak. With that said, aspiring bodybuilders IMO are better off with bulk/cut cycles.
 
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