nutting out the post 5's

[cheen]

Trying to workout what intensity techniques (eg clustering, negatives, partials) am going to use in the post 5 weeks, I think I will as a general rule just continue to increment up from 5RM. I have no training partner so negatives on some movements are not practicle. am I better off using a clustering approach or negatives approach for the following exercises?

Dips
Skullcrushers
Incline DB Curls
Chins
Incline Flyes

Ideally which exercises should I be performing loaded stretches on, should I be stretching with the same weight I used during the sets or reduce back to 5RM etc?


Squats - Cluster
Leg Curls - Cluster
Incline DB - Cluster
Yates Row - Partials
Incline DB Flies - Negatives
Upright Rows - Cluster
Rear DB/Lying Laterals - Negatives
Barbell Curls/Incline Curls - Negatives
CG Bench/Skull Crushers - Negatives
Standing Calf Raise - Cluster
Barbell Shrugs - Negatives
Ab Crunch - Cluster

Dips - Cluster
Chins/Pull downs - Partials
Leg Press - Cluster
Leg Curls - Cluster
Military Press - Cluster

 

[vicious]

Cluster where you can't use negatives or partials. I think your choices are mostly correct.

You can use unilateral negatives with leg press, calf raise, and leg curls. If you do pulldowns, you can switch the grip to do negatives instead of partials.

You can use partials with upright row (and that's probably better for your cuff anyway.) If you want to accentuate the stretch on this, do the upright row behind you (This is a bit cumbersome, and so you may want to merely hold it at full-stretch.)

LS: Incline DB Fly, Lying Laterals, Incline curls, Skullcrushers, Calf Raise

You can also load stretch all of your rowing/pulling/chin movements as well. They would be need to be longer, at least 30-60 seconds for them to work. It's not that important, though, unless you're especially interested in back specialization this cycle. Even then, I'd probably recommend PS, which is trickier to do.

Make sure to add some metabolic burn sets as well.

cheers,
Jules

 

[cheen]

I don't know my unilateral 5RM weights for leg press, calves or ham curls unfortunately. What about negatives with chins using a bench to get back up to top? or will partials as described below be superior?

I am pretty much trying to bring up everything this cycle especially chest/biceps.

By PS I assume you mean pulse stretches? how would I implement those into the below scheme?

When doing loaded stretches for flyes should I be using the working weight for that day, If I am doing heavy negatives might this weight prove too much? I assume you would hold these LS for 10-20sec only?

To do a loaded stretch on rows, chins, does this sound right?


2 x 5 partial chins (cluster as required)
1-2 5RM full range chins
Loaded Stretch: hold 30-60 seconds just short of full extension after last rep of 5RM set.
1 x 15 pull downs (metabolic)

I assume I only need to add metabolic burn sets for the major compound lifts and not (arm curls, skull crushers, lying laterals, shrugs etc?)

As for upright rows, how far should you be rowing up for partials? And is it a good idea to loaded stretch them behind the back?

 

[cheen]

Which loaded stretches should I do doing during end of 5's post 5's?

ATM I will be doing loaded stretches after the last rep of the following exercises before the high rep set.

DB Flyes - 10-20sec tensed against load at full stretch
Chins - pulse 5- 10 times near lockout then 45-60sec
Rows - pulse 5- 10 times near lockout then 45-60sec
Lying Laterals - 10-20 sec tensed against load at full stretch
Quads - Kneeling quad stretch ( can't think of a better way to load them up)
Calves - After working weight on calf machine, extend to bottom, curl toes, tense against load.
Skull crusher - 10-20sec tensed against load at full stretch
Incline Curls - 10-20sec tensed against load at full stretch
Upright Rows - Same as working load but help behind back to accentuate stretch 45-60 seconds

Will performing these LS be overkill on a 6x a week fullbody routine? What a good LS for hamstrings?

I assume that with Loaded stretches and a light 15's set for metabolic work I am pretty much covering everything I need to be in the post 5's?

I have been considering adding a set of pecdec and machine bicep curl during the 5's or post 5's to emphasise these body parts a bit and do some pulse (10-15, in addition to a light 15's set). I haven't worked out what my RM's are for these movements? I get the feeling the load isn't so important as long as I make a attempt to progress it either by adding more pulses or weight? Could I just take a guess at it and throw them in or will this mess up my RBE if I am off.


I've seen you recommend a short stint of hit cardio after each session, would this be excessive on a 6x full body routine. If not what sort of HIT session would you recommend on a cross trainer? intensity, timing etc.

 

[imported_dkm1987]

Quote[/b] (cheen @ May 13 2005,5:46)]What a good LS for hamstrings?

Stiff Leg Deads, Good Mornings are good also but tend to hit the Glutes a bit more.

 

[vicious]

Quote[/b] ]What about negatives with chins using a bench to get back up to top? or will partials as described below be superior?

Yeah, that works too. It would probably be better than partials since you do have more ROM, and (more importantly) since you can be more aggressive with progressively loading. I prefer that post-5s to last closer to 4 weeks than just the two. Negatives enable me to do that.

Quote[/b] ]When doing loaded stretches for flyes should I be using the working weight for that day, If I am doing heavy negatives might this weight prove too much? I assume you would hold these LS for 10-20sec only?

Yes, you would only hold it for as long as it takes for the reflex to start. The combination of extreme weight and stretch-point means you're looking at probably 10-30 seconds or so to cause a significant reflex reaction. Of course, these are just guidance values.

Quote[/b] ]2 x 5 partial chins (cluster as required)
1-2 5RM full range chins
Loaded Stretch: hold 30-60 seconds just short of full extension after last rep of 5RM set.
1 x 15 pull downs (metabolic)

Yup. At some point when the weight really is too heavy, you may consider going from 2x5 to just 5-10 purely clustered reps.

Quote[/b] ]I assume I only need to add metabolic burn sets for the major compound lifts and not (arm curls, skull crushers, lying laterals, shrugs etc?)

Yes. If you wish, you can increase the metabolic stress on certain bodyparts further by using pulses (not pulse stretching.) That would be exercises like tricep pushdowns, machine-based curls, normal laterals, and top-half shrugs with head facing the ceiling. You would eat accordingly as well.

Quote[/b] ]As for upright rows, how far should you be rowing up for partials? And is it a good idea to loaded stretch them behind the back?

About waistline. You can LS them by holding them behind your back and leaning your upper torso forward.

Quote[/b] ]ATM I will be doing loaded stretches after the last rep of the following exercises before the high rep set.

Thumbs up to all. LS the calves during 10s. Then switch to PS with the calves when you get to the 5s. They need it.

Quote[/b] ]Will performing these LS be overkill on a 6x a week
fullbody routine? What a good LS for hamstrings?

No . . . provided that you don't go all-out with LS.

Quote[/b] ]I assume that with Loaded stretches and a light 15's set for metabolic work I am pretty much covering everything I need to be in the post 5's?

Yes, it's very thorough. Only other issue is whether you actually want to add more metabolic stress to your body. Which leads to . . .

Quote[/b] ]I get the feeling the load isn't so important as long as I make a attempt to progress it either by adding more pulses or weight?

More or less. And you don't even really need to progress if you don't want to. If everytime you get a good-quality burn, then just stick with that weight and # of reps. If it's too easy or requires way too many pulses, then just increase the weight next time. RBE won't figure into it.

Quote[/b] ]I've seen you recommend a short stint of hit cardio after each session, would this be excessive on a 6x full body routine. If not what sort of HIT session would you recommend on a cross trainer? intensity, timing etc.

Yup, I like a little HIIT after the session (5-10 minutes of active HIIT), even on a 6x-a-week program. But, only HIIT if you have access to a true full-body exerciser that won't wear out your legs. Or in other words, look for the exercises with the highest caloric burn rate and use that. If you can't find such, then just do steady state cardio on a bike for 25-30 minutes. If steady-state, make sure to add another 200 calories or so of carbs to your post-WO regimen.

You're going to be driving your body pretty hard. and so the dietary requirements will be unusually extreme. (EFA intake may have to go up too to fight inflammation) Many of these recs were actually formed a few years ago as part of a "What would be a HST program for the ABCDE diet?" hypothetical.

When in the post-5s (which should aspire for 4 weeks or so), think of yourself as an athlete and food as your means of surviving the next session. Because if you don't eat enough, this program will kill ya.

cheers,
Jules

 

[cheen]

I am currently putting away about 18 cal/lb so about 3600 calories a day, I seem to be gaining weight, (up couple kilos since start of cycle). As for chins if you think negatives are superior I will go with that then, incrementing beyond 5RM, doing as many full ROM reps as I can and then filling out with rest with negatives.

Cardio machine wise the gym has a cross trainer/skiing type thingy, are these things suitable as post workout HIT style machines that don't impact the legs too much? I was thinking of doing 30 seconds hard 30 seconds recovery for 5 or so minutes.

Thanks for your help, your advice so far has proved invaluable.

 

[cheen]

what are some ideas interval/intensity wise for 5-10min post session HIT (being mindful of overtraining since I am working out atm 6x a week)

 

[vicious]

Quote[/b] ]I was thinking of doing 30 seconds hard 30 seconds recovery for 5 or so minutes.

That will work pretty well. HIIT is actually harder with shorter hi/lo intervals. For example, something like 10 seconds hard, 20 seconds easy would be significantly harder.

I am currently putting away about 18 cal/lb so about 3600 calories a day, I seem to be gaining weight, (up couple kilos since start of cycle).

Assuming you're 200lbs @ 15%, I'd probably put you between 3400 (40/40/20) and 4300 (50/33/15) on workout days. Key thing is to aggressively add the carbs after workout and eat a lot of protein.

cheers,
Jules