Smith machine squats dangerous

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[xeno]Julios

New Member
This has probably come up before, but I couldn't find any reference to it using the search function.
I remember seeing posts where Blade talked about using a Smith Machine for squats, since he finds BB squats don't suit his personal biomechanics.
Now maybe this is HIT prejudice, but isn't the groove forced upon you by a Smith machine unnatural? (i.e. it goes straight up and down, whereas with a natural squat your body follows a unique curve.) The argument against Smith machines (safety-wise) says that this unnatural groove puts unnatural shearing forces on your back and knees. Makes sense on an intuitive level, but would like to hear the other side of the coin.
Personally I do BB squats.
 
I had been doing Smith squats (on my home gym) as I don't have a spotter normally (that's why I got a Smith in the first place).

I find them harder to do than regular BB squats. As you said, it's straight up-and-down, otherwise you are fighting resistance from the machine itself if you waver at all. I do find, though, that it keeps your back straighter (not too much forward lean), which is important to me as I'm still working on my form.

I am now using BB squats, improvising a rack by using the handles of my dip/chin station ;) . Still no spotter, but haven't had a problem yet, I'm not lifting weights equal to small vehicles, like some of you guys are. Seems to be working OK for me though.

I won't go back to using the Smith. Now if only I could talk my wife into letting me get a nice power cage w/ high & low pulleys & dump my year-old Smith...
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thx micmic - i had read that in the past, but had trouble really gleaning anything from it - perhaps coz my knowledge of biomechanics is pretty weak...
It still didn't seem to address the issue of forced grooves... whether or not they're such a big deal.
In a peripherally related issue, I had also noticed that the same author, in http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Squats.html, noted:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] "Contrary to propaganda to the contrary, prominent weight training authorities demonstrate the squat with the knees flexing forward at the same distance as the hips flex backwards. Fredrick Hatfield, Ph.D., the first man to squat over 800 lbs, recommends the knees to extend over the feet with the back more upright for quadriceps development."
Click to expand...
Yet i seem to recall other studies that said the opposite - i wish i understood the underlying issues well enough to discern the two sides.
 
We've been talking about knees in squats in this thread. It seems simple to me, just squat without any weight and try to reproduce your natural movement and stance when loaded.
 
One of the main arguments against Smith squats were that the hamstrings would be recruited less, hence the stability of the knee joint would be compromised. I read a study where just this premise was tested, and the hamstrings showed about equal recruitment between Smith vs. regular squats.

Foot placement is important, so just experiment until you find the better 'groove' for the movement. On my last cycle I did another horrific no-no on squats (regular), I used a wedged block of wood to elevate my heels which enabled me to go deeper without leaning excessively forward.
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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]On my last cycle I did another horrific no-no on squats (regular), I used a wedged block of wood to elevate my heels which enabled me to go deeper without leaning excessively forward.
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Shame on you, Blade...
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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Blade,
On my last cycle I did another horrific no-no on squats (regular), I used a wedged blockof wood to elevate my heels which enabled me to go deeper without leaning excessively forward.
Click to expand...

Blade did this leave more tension / stress on your quads ?

I've been trying to go a$$ to grass (well maybe weeds) and I find
it takes the tension from my quads and places it on my glutes.
 
Yes, I found that I got good response from my quads, and a lot less lower back and glute stress.

Like I've mentioned before, I have a biomechanical disadvantage in the squat and I'm pretty much used to employing primarily glutes, hams, and lower back in this lift. When I started lifting heels elevated, high bar placement on my traps, and as upright posture as possible - I really had to reduce the loads I was used to lifting which was a humbling experience.
 
I tried elevated heels late in my 5s this past cycle & had exactly the same response as Blade; hit my quads more, and low back less. Feels much better for me.

In fact, I was able to do a personal high of 205lb for 3 reps today, without a spotter. I know I could've gotten more but didn't want to risk dumping the bar, just in case. That's a lot for me! My 5RM went up a good 50lb, and I think the heel elevation made a big difference.
 
I also prefer using the smith machine for squats as the free weight bar hurts my lower back too much. I had been thinking of what elevating my heels would do (much like doing front squats) but was concerned it would add more stress to my back. Today I'll try squats with elevated heels and see what happens.
Blade, you stated that you had to reduce the amount of weight you were used to using due to this method? Was it a big difference? Figured I should know before attempting this.
 
I think you'd just have to find this out for yourself - impossible for me to know your biomechanics and muscle recruitment patterns, so the difference might be greater or less for you than it was for me.
 
It is weird but I once screwed my back doing Smith Squats. It was the only back injury I ever had and regular Squats never gave me any trouble, other than normal lower back soreness.
 
I (re)screwed my back with smith machines squats. In an effort to take the load off my lower back, but went to deep which enabled the lower back to round and ping goes the back.

It can happen with normal powerlifts as well (becuase of the squat position) but less likely with the foot blocks/front squats.
 
Ok, tried doing squats using the Smith Machine and a wedged board. Worked out great, so I have to thank you for that idea. Also, I was able to use the same amount of weight with a bit more difficulty but got out 5 reps. Really burned afterwards though which felt good. Oh yeah, almost forgot....I can actually do full squats instead of half using the wedge. So I wonder now if those who are experiencing back problems doing squats on the smith machine are having problems due to their feet being kept flat on the floor.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ChuckGrill @ June 09 2003,5:17)]So I wonder now if those who are experiencing back problems doing squats on the smith machine are having problems due to their feet being kept flat on the floor.
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I have no problems with the Smith as long as I keep away from it. :D
 
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