Split Question

Discussion in 'Basic Training Principles and Methods' started by imported_fla2day, Sep 25, 2008.

  1. Hello All!  Since April first of this year I have lost 40 pounds.  I am following a 40-40-20 prot-carb-fat diet eating every 2.5 hrs.  I believe I started around 25% bf and am now like 13% I think (using a one site caliper reading) I did cardio work for 8 weeks to get some air in my lungs and a week of 15's to get ready.  Im following a 6 day split as follows.

    Squatx2
    Ham curlsx2
    Chest bb benchx2
    Bi db curlsx2
    abs-cavx2
    M W F

    Back seated rowx2
    Lat pullx2
    Shoulder pressx2
    Tri rope push downx2
    Trap shrugx2
    ABS-cavx2
    T-T-S

    Im in the process of testing for my 15 rep max tomorrow and Saturday.

    Does this look ok?  My main sticking point is the Bi's and Tri's.  I know your 'supposed' to do Back and bi's and Chest and Tri's but the bi's and tri's work seemed wasted when i do them that way as they are already worked earlier.

    Any help or comments appreciated.
     
  2. Hate bumping my own thread and i know the split questions get old quick. I'M SORRY!!! Hopefully this will be my only one.

    I'm now through the 10's except to test them out on Friday and Sat. The arms feel fine but would really appreciate some comments on working the tris and bis on opposite days from the chest and back as they are now getting hit every day. As I said they feel fine but im unsure of the long run effects this split will have on gains.
     
  3. I assume you are new to lifting with less than an year of experience. It also seems you have never done a HST cycle before. Read the site's faqs and follow a vanilla HST routine using a Simplify and Win routine (search the forum for it).
    There is no point in doing isolation work at the starter level and the energy will be better used on compounds like bench and rows. Biceps and Triceps WILL grow with these compounds.
     
  4. Wildman

    Wildman New Member

    You flew this one in under the radar it seems. Normally someone will answer back a little sooner.

    Electric gave you some good advise if you are just starting out you could consider removing your isolation work for the arms.

    A split over six days should be fine if you dont over do the number of movements. I assume everyone will want to know what your reasoning is for choosing a six day routine? I dont see anything wrong with doing it if you can tolerate the work. You will certainly need to eat plenty and have little stress outside of the gym work.

    It is a little late to totally revamp the routine since you are in the 10s but you can still make some minor changes if you choose. With a six day work schedule you will really need to be mindful of doing too much work. Your CNS can easily get overworked and burnout will soon follow so really keep an eye on your motivation level and strength levels.

    Here is what I would do to further seperate out primary and secondary movers to avoid working the muscles two days in a row. I will use the same six day split since you are fortunate enough to be able to devote this much time to it.


    M - W - F

    Squats
    Straight Leg Dead Lift - Since you are choosing not to dead lift
    Calf Raise
    Seated Row
    Lat Pull or Chins
    Barbell Curl - You can stick with the dumbells, Wildman likes the big barbell work is all.
    Ab work


    T - T - S

    Bench Press
    Decline Dumbell Fly
    Military Press
    Front Deltoid Raise
    Shrug
    Lying Tricep Extension - The rope is fine but again Wildman likes the big bar work.
    Ab Work


    This layout will give you the seperation you need to give those muscles a bit of rest between sessions. As you move into the heavy work of the fives you could then decide to simplify the routine further by removing the isolation work and stick to the primary lifts. You could also use the following layout if you are a beginner and work towards gaining good strength and technique for a few cycles. Then add the other movements back in in the cycles down the road once you get to the intermediate level.

    Alternate lower volume layout for fives or a simplified plan for a beginner:

    M - W - F

    Squats
    Straight Leg Dead Lift
    Lat Pull or Chins
    Ab work


    T - T - S

    Bench Press
    Military Press
    Shrugs
    Ab Work


    And last but not least my personal preference would be an A/B split routine applied to the six day plan. This would give you more variety and angles of resistance to work with. Again this could be simplified by removing the isolation work once you reach the heavy meso-cycle or if you are just starting out.

    A Routine - Legs, Back, Bicep:

    Squats
    Leg Curl
    Calf Raise
    Seated Row
    Lat Pull or Chins
    Barbell Curl
    Ab work


    A Routine - Chest, Shoulders, Tricep:

    Bench Press
    Decline Dumbell Fly
    Military Press
    Front Deltoid Raise
    Shrug
    Lying Tricep Extension
    Ab Work


    B Routine - Legs, Back, Bicep:

    Deadlift
    Leg Extension or Sissy Squat
    Seated Calf Raise or Dumbell Calf Raise
    Barbell Row
    Barbell Pullover
    Incline Dumbell Curl
    Ab Work


    B Routine - Chest, Shoulders, Tricep:

    Incline Dumbell Press
    Dumbell Fly
    Dumbell Shoulder Press
    Side Shoulder Raise
    Standing Row
    Overhead Dumbell Tricep Extension
    Ab Work

    That is my two cents and I am sure more people will chime in.

    Good luck.
     
  5. Wildman

    Wildman New Member

    P.S.

    (Yeah I know I talk a lot.)

    Congratulations on that weight loss. That is huge!
     
  6. Thanks for the replies!

    I chose the 6 day split mainly because when I would so a whole body m,w,f split the latter exercises in the lineup would be so lame by time i got to them I hated it. I work hard and legs and Back take it out of me. With the split working this way i feel fresh every day and get through the work in around 50 min.

    I really appreciate the help because I really just consider this run-through a primer. I lifted for about 2 years and had found HST and loved it so when I came back I came right back here.

    While I do not have a back injury I have a back that likes to ache in a bad way. Even when i was not lifting. Deadlifts and SLDL always freak me out somewhat. Maybe just keep the weight low and go real slow with them? Was not sure how much good that would be so I left them out. But i continue to torture myself by reading everthing I can get my hands on saying "DEADLIFT OR BUST!!" [​IMG]

    The hardest thing is fitting cardio in there.

    I had not considered the the A-B stuff and I really like it. I understand the importance of the compound lifts but only doing the M. press for the shoulders does not sit right for some reason. May just be the old thought of how to do things creeping back in. The A-B would allow me to get over that feeling of neglect somewhat i'm sure.

    So I tested out of the 10's today and will start in for 4 weeks in the 5's. Going slow the first 2 weeks to build into a real test of the 5's the last 2. I have done 2 sets in the 15 and 2 in the 10's and plan on 3 in the 5's.

    Its amazing the results in the mirror already! While I'm still trying to get rid of a bit more fat with the remainder of the 'cycle' and am on a reduced calorie zig-zag diet im 100% ready to transition into my diet into a zig-zag positive calorie diet for the next 2 cycles. Looking forward to it in fact.

    Again I really appreciate the replies and hope to follow up with my progress in the 5's. Thanks again!
     

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