The purpose of DRIVER?

tejpis

New Member
Driver is mainly a caseinate powder which means it's digested slow by the body, as bot you and I know.. What I don't know is WHY a slow-digested protein is to prefer post workout. This is probably explained in an article (deeply hidden from me
tounge.gif
) but I can't find it... What I can find is this:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Quote from "PRODUCTS"
Immediately after workout, there is a window of opportunity where nutrient uptake into muscle tissue is very high. This window only lasts about 2 hours, however the effectiveness of a protein drink taken 60 minutes after training is significantly lower than when it is consumed immediately after training.
I
worship.gif
your cunningness!
Greetings from Sweden / Johannes
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>edit: I can't spell right, dang the English language ;]</span>
 
At the top of every page on this site there appears a tab-bar with all of the sections on this site. Articles section is one of them. You will find the pre/post WO nutrition article there.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (baby a @ Aug. 24 2004,7:22)]At the top of every page on this site there appears a tab-bar with all of the sections on this site. Articles section is one of them. You will find the pre/post WO nutrition article there.
I just finished reading &quot;Pre/Post Exercise Nutrition&quot; and &quot;Pre/Post Exercise Protein&quot;, and the abstracts of the references given. So the point is just that the need of carbs+protein is greater pre-workout? I can't find any reference saying that slow protein is optimal.
My brain thinks that it would be more clever to take a whey+dextrose directly after workout then a &quot;steady&quot; meal after that. What is it that I've missed?


edit: This is what I found btw:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The post exercise meal should consist of carbohydrate, protein and perhaps a small amount of essential fats, in a form that is easily and quickly digestible. There are many meal replacement products that fit the bill. Just pick the one you like the most. Don't worry about sugar content because right after a workout, fat storage is not a big issue. A liquid meal is the most practical method of post-exercise feeding although it is probably not essential. The ratio of macronutrients depends somewhat on the nature of the training session. An emphasis on high glycemic carbs, complete readily digestible proteins such as whey, egg, or high quality casein, and essential fats such as fish or flax oil will meet the criteria for an effective post exercise meal.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (tejpis @ Aug. 24 2004,4:06)]Driver is mainly a caseinate powder which means it's digested slow by the body, as bot you and I know.. What I don't know is WHY a slow-digested protein is to prefer post workout. This is probably explained in an article (deeply hidden from me
tounge.gif
) but I can't find it... What I can find is this:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Quote from &quot;PRODUCTS&quot;
Immediately after workout, there is a window of opportunity where nutrient uptake into muscle tissue is very high. This window only lasts about 2 hours, however the effectiveness of a protein drink taken 60 minutes after training is significantly lower than when it is consumed immediately after training.
I
worship.gif
your cunningness!
Greetings from Sweden / Johannes
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>edit: I can't spell right, dang the English language ;]</span>
If you don't take Primer before your workout you would want to take a fast acting whey protein afterwards. But, if you do use Primer before training there is no rush to get your post workout protein digested because the aminos are already where you want them. By the time the aminos from the Primer begin to drop, the aminos from the Driver show up and last until your next meal.

Nothing magic going on here. :)
 
Protein
Protein is another critical nutrient post-exercise. Protein is essential to post exercise anabolism. Protein provides amino acids that are used to rebuild damaged tissues as well as provide enzymes and carrier proteins necessary for adaptation to exercise. Without protein, which supplies essential amino acids for endogenous protein synthesis, the body's ability to adapt to exercise is greatly diminished.

Studies have shown a 12 to 14 day period after the onset of an unaccustomed exercise program, in which nitrogen balance, the ratio of protein intake to protein loss, is negative (Butterfield 1987). Any study looking at protein needs and exercise must take this into account. Nitrogen balance during this period appears to be insensitive to total caloric intake, but can be improved with a high protein intake if adequate calories are supplied (Gontzea 1975). Even though additional protein intake will prevent nitrogen balance from becoming negative, it will still fall despite high protein intake during the first two weeks of exercise.

Muscle specific messenger RNA (mRNA) produced subsequent to training has a half-life of only 4-5 hours. It is so short because mRNA has no &quot;quality control&quot; mechanism built into the coding. By keeping the half-life short, any errors in the sequence won't be able to produce enough defective proteins to do irreparable damage to the cell or organism. This also allows tight control of protein metabolism.

The timing of protein intake is important. If the anabolic stimulus from exercise is to be maximized, a steady flow of amino acids must bathe the muscle while mRNA content is high. It should be no surprise that the optimum time for protein intake after your workout is relatively brief compared to frequency of training a particular muscle. Muscle protein synthetic rate (MPS) is elevated in humans by up to 50% at about 4 hours following a bout of heavy resistance training, and by 109% at 24 hours following training. A study done by Macdougall (MacDougall et al 1995) further examined the time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis by examining its rate at 36 hrs following a bout of heavy resistance training. Six healthy young men performed 12 sets of 6- to 12-RM elbow flexion exercises with one arm while the opposite arm served as a control. MPS was calculated from the in vivo rate of incorporation of L-[1,2-13C2] leucine into biceps brachii of both arms over 11 hours. At an average time of 36 hours post-exercise, MPS in the exercised arm had returned to within 14% of the control arm value, the difference being nonsignificant. The following conclusions can be drawn from this study, following a bout of heavy resistance training, muscle protein synthetic rate increases rapidly, is more than double at 24 hours, and then declines rapidly so that at 36 hours it has almost returned to baseline.

Current recommendations for total protein intake for athletes is between 1.6-1.8 grams per kilogram body weight, depending on who you read, however, it is not uncommon for bodybuilders to consume in excess of 2 grams per kg of body weight with no ill effects. It should be remembered that the body does not have the capacity to effectively store amino acids. Protein should be eaten at least every 3-4 hours. The evening meal should contain slowly digesting protein that will allow a steady release of amino acids into your system well into the night. Dinner is a perfect time for steak or other meat dishes.

and

Fouillet H, Mariotti F, Gaudichon C, Bos C, Tome D. Peripheral and splanchnic metabolism of dietary nitrogen are differently affected by the protein source in humans as assessed by compartmental modeling. J Nutr. 2002 Jan;132(1):125-33.

Fouillet H, Gaudichon C, Mariotti F, Bos C, Huneau JF, Tome D. Energy nutrients modulate the splanchnic sequestration of dietary nitrogen in humans: a compartmental analysis. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Aug;281(2):E248-60.

Fouillet H, Gaudichon C, Mariotti F, Mahe S, Lescoat P, Huneau JF, Tome D.
Compartmental modeling of postprandial dietary nitrogen distribution in humans.
Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2000 Jul;279(1):E161-75.

Gaudichon C, Mahe S, Benamouzig R, Luengo C, Fouillet H, Dare S, Van Oycke
M, Ferriere F, Rautureau J, Tome D. Net postprandial utilization of [15N]-labeled milk protein nitrogen is influenced by diet composition in humans. J Nutr. 1999 Apr;129(4):890-5.

Fouillet H, Bos C, Gaudichon C, Tome D. Approaches to quantifying protein metabolism in response to nutrient ingestion. J Nutr. 2002 Oct;132(10):3208S-18S.
Burke LM. Nutrition for post-exercise recovery. Aust J Sci Med Sport Mar;29(1):3-10, 1997

Butterfield GE, Whole-body protein utilization in humans. Med. Sci. Sports Exrc., Vol. 19, No. 5 (Supplement), pp. S157-S165, 1987.

Gisolfi CV., Lamb DRR. (Eds.) Perspectives In Exercise Science and Sports Medicine Volume 3: Fluid Homeostasis During Exercise. Cooper Publishing Group, LLC 1990.

Gontzea I, Sutzescu P, Dumitrache S. The influence of adaptation to physical effort on nitrogen balance in man. Nutr. Rept. Inturn. 11:231-236, 1975

Goodyear LJ, Kahn BB, Exercise, glucose transport, and insulin sensitivity. Annu. Rev. Med. 49:235-261, 1998

Halseth AE, Bracy DP, Wasserman DH. Limitations to exercise- and maximal insulin-stimulated muscle glucose uptake. J. Appl. Physiol. 85(6):2305-2313, 1998

Hayashi N, Tashiro T, Yamamori H, Takagi K, Morishima Y, Otsubo Y, Sugiura T, Furukawa K, Nitta H, Nakajima N, Suzuki N, Ito I Effect of intravenous omega-6 and omega-3 fat emulsions on nitrogen retention and protein kinetics in burned rats. Nutrition 1999 Feb;15(2):135-9

MacDougall JD, Gibala MJ, Tarnopolsky MA, MacDonald JR, Interisano SA, Yarasheski KE The time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise. Can J Appl Physiol 1995 Dec;20(4):480-6

Sherman LA, Hirshman MF, Cormont M, Le Marchand-Brustel Y, Goodyear LJ. Different effects of insulin and exercise on Rab4 distribution in rat skeletal muscle. Endocrinology 137:266-73, 1996

Smith L.L, Fulmer M.G, Holbert D, McCammon M.R, Houmard J.A, Frazer D.D, Nsien E, and Isreal R.G. The impact of a repeated bout of eccentric exercise on muscular strength, muscle soreness and creatine kinase. Br. J. Sports Med.1994; 28 (4) 267-271.

Tarpenning KM, Wiswell RA, Marcell TJ, Hawkins SA. Influence of Weight Training Exercise and Modification of Hormonal Response on Skeletal Muscle Growth. Medicine &amp; Science in Sports &amp; Exercise. 1998 May;30(5) Supplement; S1-S1339

Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini BE, Wolfe RR. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Aug;281(2):E197-206.

and

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin....13;t=23
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bryan Haycock @ Aug. 24 2004,8:06)]
wow.gif
6-->
[b said:
Quote[/b] (tejpis @ Aug. 24 2004,4
wow.gif
6)]Driver is mainly a caseinate powder which means it's digested slow by the body, as bot you and I know.. What I don't know is WHY a slow-digested protein is to prefer post workout. This is probably explained in an article (deeply hidden from me
tounge.gif
) but I can't find it... What I can find is this:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Quote from &quot;PRODUCTS&quot;
Immediately after workout, there is a window of opportunity where nutrient uptake into muscle tissue is very high. This window only lasts about 2 hours, however the effectiveness of a protein drink taken 60 minutes after training is significantly lower than when it is consumed immediately after training.
I
worship.gif
your cunningness!
Greetings from Sweden / Johannes
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>edit: I can't spell right, dang the English language ;]</span>
If you don't take Primer before your workout you would want to take a fast acting whey protein afterwards. But, if you do use Primer before training there is no rush to get your post workout protein digested because the aminos are already where you want them. By the time the aminos from the Primer begin to drop, the aminos from the Driver show up and last until your next meal.
Nothing magic going on here. :)
Go figure =) Like you said, no magic! Thank you, very logical and pedagogical. I should've figured out that myself. Thank you for helping me everybody!


and dkm1987, I've read that but thank you for your copy&amp;paste-skill. =)
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bryan Haycock @ Aug. 24 2004,8:06)]
wow.gif
6-->
[b said:
Quote[/b] (tejpis @ Aug. 24 2004,4
wow.gif
6)]Driver is mainly a caseinate powder which means it's digested slow by the body, as bot you and I know.. What I don't know is WHY a slow-digested protein is to prefer post workout. This is probably explained in an article (deeply hidden from me
tounge.gif
) but I can't find it... What I can find is this:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Quote from &quot;PRODUCTS&quot;
Immediately after workout, there is a window of opportunity where nutrient uptake into muscle tissue is very high. This window only lasts about 2 hours, however the effectiveness of a protein drink taken 60 minutes after training is significantly lower than when it is consumed immediately after training.
I
worship.gif
your cunningness!
Greetings from Sweden / Johannes
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>edit: I can't spell right, dang the English language ;]</span>
If you don't take Primer before your workout you would want to take a fast acting whey protein afterwards. But, if you do use Primer before training there is no rush to get your post workout protein digested because the aminos are already where you want them. By the time the aminos from the Primer begin to drop, the aminos from the Driver show up and last until your next meal.
Nothing magic going on here. :)
By the way, when is my next meal after workout.. What do you recommend when I'm following your supplement recommendation? The ordinary &quot;one hour after workout&quot; or something else?

I've read your article &quot;Eating for Size&quot; but it doesn't say anything about timing.
 
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