To Squat or not to Squat... ++

[Xcalibur]

Hey all, Been reading this forum for a few days now and tbh im pretty excited to see some gains after i finish my cutting phaze Only been training for about 3 months lost 2 stone body fat from 15 stone 6 pounds to 13,6 and was 11% bf last month. SO when i get down a bit further i will start bulking.

Anyways im thinking of doing all my routine 3 times a week tue/thur/sat, Do you think its a bad idea trying to fit it into one session ? cause i cant really do it am/pm split etc?

This is the routine i picked. Vic or Anyone if you can tell me any better exersises to make it more compact that would be great... and also as the title says i dont know wether to do Squats or Dumbell Lunges ? As i dont want lower back pain or knee pain..


Routine :
Dumbell Lunges/Squats
Leg Exe
Leg Curl
Calf Raise (Do i stand on something so as to let me heel drop down more? and if u do what to stand on in the gym without looking silly )

Chins
Dips
Rows

Incline Bench (Suggestions for flat ? or does dips take care of that side of things ?)

Lat Raises
Shoulder press (what is military press ?)
Rear delt

Db curl
Skull crushers

And what would u suggest for abs ? at my Gym there is a ab machine with weights.. because how can u increase the weight with situps/crunches??

I know there are alot of questions and normaly i wouldent even bother to ask but as ive read most posts in this forum it seems to me you people are very helpfull

Thanks in Advance.
David

 

[Xcalibur]

oh btw i havent started HST at all yet. so the training ive been doing is just the conventional 3 day split thing 2 muscles each day etc

Also i wouldent feel comfortable having someone from my gym helping me with the negs as i work alone so would drop sets mean less gains than negs ?

Thanks

 

[skinnyman]

do squats with a smith machine if you don't have a power rack. that exercise really brings out the man in ya

for the abs, i use this decline bench or whatever you call the thing for decline sit-ups and put dumbells over my chest (hold it or else your faced will get smacked).
wait for some more replies

 

[Xcalibur]

yeah there is a smith machine but it hurts my back a little plus my knees.. even though ive been shown proper form.

What about deadlifts are they more joint friendly?

Im about to go down in a while to find my 15rms cause i still dont know because my gym has been closed for nearly a week so ive doen a week SD so far ;o

but when i take my RMs it will ruin the weeks SD so ill have to wait a further 2 weeks after that. I guess thats ok since im going to try and just cut with low calorie diet. So i am just gonna do cardio for the next few weeks anyway or do you think i should do a cycle of HST anyway with low cals for cutting... im not really sure because i want to do my first HST with excess cals to see more impressive gains

 

[skinnyman]

when does your knee and back hurt when doing squats? going down or going up? how much are you squatting anyway?!?

does it hurt as much as when you do lunges?

you haven't gotten your RM's before the gym closed? so you have no idea what your RM's are? If you don't then you better test your rep maxes and rest for 7-9 days (or is this enough guys? because he just tested RMs..) SD'ing will be worth it

if your going to do cardio during your SD... go here
and read the post there. don't do heavy cardio (HIIT sprint/run) until late 10s (?) because it might interfere with your leg workouts (might reach RBE?really don't know what i'm talking about. i might give wrong info here. help other hst'ers)

you have to choose whether you want to cut or bulk. you can't do both at the same time if you want to see impressive gains then go bulk. or if your arms are like 18" (not ripped) then go rip yourself! that's too big!

make sure you use www.fitday.com to track calories

 

[Old and Grey]

You have to learn how to properly squat to get good legs. Dogs squat every day. Ever seen a dog with skinny back legs?

 

[Xcalibur]

i spose it doesent really hurt its just i feel like it adds too much pressure on my knees.. but im gonna do em anyway


Can anyone help me with my other questions in the main post. E.g is trying to do all in one session 3 times a week too much ?

E.t.c

Thanks

 

[Old and Grey]

You have listed 13 exercises in your post. Doing 1 set of each should be doable in 1/2 hour and 2 sets within one hour. Therefore, my opinion would be that you can certainly squeeze your program into one session, three times per week. Go for it mate.  

 

[Xcalibur]

Ahh great thanks.

Are you from the UK like myself by any chance ?

if so how do u manage with all our weights being in kilos and thus hard to constantly increment as everything goes up in 5 kilos :/

 

[Old and Grey]

No, not in the UK. Actually I am in the Colonies.

 

[robefc]

Quote[/b] (Xcalibur @ May 12 2005,8:38)]if so how do u manage with all our weights being in kilos and thus hard to constantly increment as everything goes up in 5 kilos :/

Most gyms should have 1.25kg and 2.5kg plates.

I find dumbbells are the problem as they tend to increase by 2.5kg which equals a 5kg increase altogether. If you come up with two different workouts and alternate between them then the increments can be bigger.

E.g. I will do dips one session and incline dumbbell presses the next session and add 5kgs each time.

Cheers

Rob

 

[Xcalibur]

Yeah they have the small "biscuits" but that wont help with machines or as youve pointed out dumbells too.

 

[Al and Hammer]

My home gym only has 10lb increments. I've got dumbells but they increment in a stupid way too (1.25kg on some).

X - where in the UK are you?

Squats makes your @$$ huge...tho the wife seems to like it

 

[Xcalibur]

I live in Northern Ireland you ?

My gyms DBs go up in 2.5k so which means 5kgs altogether... which = 11 pounds..

i can use the BB but not for the machine excersises.. they ONLY go up in 5ks

 

[Al and Hammer]

I'm running out of weight on my machine anyway. It only goes up to 64kg (140lbs).

Gonna have to get a squat rack.

X- just across the water..london

 

[Xcalibur]

yeah i can nearly throw a stone over to your house from here well compared to other peoples distances from us its close i spose... anyway.

im just not gonna do the isolation excersises untill 10s, that way i get more linear progression like V said in another thread

 

[vicious]

I think squats can be potentially dangerous, even with proper form, if you're particularly tall/lanky, your center of gravity is high, or if you're Welsh. There is no help if you're Welsh. Knee problems seem to come down to depth. Lunges are generally worse for your knees than squats because, effectively, you're working the knee deeper than you normally would, and the leverage starts to work really against you. It should be noted, though, that depth is key to optimal quad hypertrophy. So, it's an issue of compromise. I would go with the squat.

Quote[/b] ]Calf Raise (Do i stand on something so as to let me heel drop down more? and if u do what to stand on in the gym without looking sill

Aye son.

Calf raises should be done on a wee high block, so that the heel drops below level. At the same time, curl your toes inwards and lean a wee bit forward to accentuate stretch and tension further. At the end of set, hold it at the lowest, stretched position for at least 15-30 seconds.

Quote[/b] ]
Lat Raises
Shoulder press (what is military press ?)

Shoulder press and lat raises can be dropped if you do incline press. (They more or less all hit the front delt.) OR, you can do shoulder press and drop the incline press.

Quote[/b] ]And what would u suggest for abs ? at my Gym there is a ab machine with weights.. because how can u increase the weight with situps/crunches?

Use the ab machine with weights.

Quote[/b] ]Db curl

Make sure to do negatives with them during post-5s.

cheers,
Jules

 

[Xcalibur]

Well im 6 foot. Dont think im lanky i have pretty big quads hard as a rock cause i climb up and down ladders constantly in my job,

On one squat a few weeks i could lift 22 stone = 308 pounds for 10 reps I thought that was pretty unusual as im only training 3 months, but i guesss the ladders help. But thats when the twinge in my knee came.. so i guess if i keept it way lighter and progress that way the knee SHOULD imrpove in strength too ? + lower back ?

Question is does the Knee and lower back get strong from putting them under strain like in Squats or do they just get worked to a point where they break ?



with the incline press i thought it was only meant to be a small incline ? should i put it 45 degrees so i can skip shoulder press ? or am i leaving an area out?

 

[Xcalibur]

PLus what are pulse reps ?

Also would the clean and press be a good one to use ?:? as it works most muscles

 

[Lance]

Copy that with the negatives. As said in the results from HST thread sticky, i made some bad decisions during my off season, and wasn't very consistent with my HST plans. I stuck too them, no doubt, until i HAD to SD because i wanted to start a newer better cycle. Good news is, i've found a great workout cycle that i learned alot from. Here goes: (just my example, of course you could change it)

Squats x 5
Deadlifts x 5
Bench Press x 5-10 (depending on frequency)
Flat Flys x 5-10 (depending on frequency)
Chins x 5
Clean and Press x 5 (for shoulders and traps)
Incline Curls x 10
Overhead DB Extensions x 10
Calf Raises x 5
Ab work (whatever you want i guess)

Those x5's and such are how many total reps i'm doing. This cycle was a tweaked HST cycle going all heavy. Start at beginning of 5's, then move onto an aggressive post 5's all out blitzkrieg. Metabolic work was added to every exercise through a set of 15's except Deadlifts. Just didn't feel like doing 15's of deadlifts after doing it with squats. For chest and arms, i did pulses for metabolic work. I was emphasizing these bodyparts. As shown by the increase rep total goal.

So after my 5rm day, i'd increment all the weights again, and do a full week at the same weight. Next week, bump up all the weights again and do a full week with the same weights. Use cluster reps to reach your rep total, or negatives. I also incorporated loaded stretches for my arms, chest, and calves.

Results? Well, the cycle was cut short (once again during this damned off season) but this time due to flu, not my fault. I pretty much lost what i had gained, but muscle memory will bring it back easily. My arms, in ~4 weeks, went from 16" to 16.5". That was mind blowing to me. Chest was getting bigger too, but i really think i need to move to dips/incline bp or something. I just keep hearing how much better they are.

Overall the body got thicker, and i was eating above maintenance, quite above. I started this right when i started a new full time job of all physical work, lol. So granted to say my original bulking diet failed, i ended up eating all my good foods, then pigging out at night on everything. I was hungry as hell, especially doing this 4-5 week.

Later