Vince Gironda

Discussion in 'Basic Training Principles and Methods' started by Gallaman, Sep 28, 2004.

  1. Gallaman

    Gallaman New Member

    Hey HST guys, I have been researching and reading through HST for a while now. I never have applied the principles behind it, however.

    I was wondering how HST compares to Vince Gironda's techniques, which are basically 6x6, 8x8 and even some 10x10. You choose one weight for all sets, and complete the reps for each set resting only 10-15 seconds between sets. You only do one exercise per body part. The split is usually upper body/lower body, each done twice per week, so 4 days per week training. This is currently the routine I use right now (just started yesterday) and I really enjoy it so far.

    My problems with HST are as follows:

    1) The weight you use is SO LIGHT, how the heck does it produce growth?

    2) Just three days per week training? So little?

    3) The results don't seem to be so significant compared to what I have done in the past. 8 lbs. in 6 weeks, 1/2" growth everywhere...I have done that as well in other routines (naturally too, no supplements).

    I think if Vince were alive today and knew about HST, he would appreciate it's in depth scientific approach and the principles and rules behind it, even if he wouldn't agree with the training guidelines.

    I am not against HST in any way, and if I stop growing in the future with Vince's techniques, then I will give a cycle of HST a try. Until then, I will just sit back and read and exchange ideas.

    Thanks for the future feedback!

    G
     
  2. Heavy Duty dude

    Heavy Duty dude New Member

    I guess that if you do a lot of sets with little rest between you deplete more glycogen so you get more glycogen supercompensation.

    Not to say that there is no real growth of course.

    Regarding your remarks on HST you have to understand the entire theory. I can make a few remarks on each point and you'll be able to check the FAQ for more info.

    It's because you decondition regularily. This makes your musckes more sensitive to light loads.

    There's no problem with training more. What you want is your strength to recover between workouts - to be able to continue to overload.

    8 lbs in 6 weeks is very good gains. If you do 6 cycles in 1 year it's 48lbs!

    What's more, protein synthesis saturates at some point, HST or not. A beginner who starts very deconditionned may be able to saturate protein synthesis with different programs for some time.


    Can you describe Gironda's method a bit more? Do you periodize, etc..
     
  3. Gallaman

    Gallaman New Member

    Well Vince recommended training 3 weeks on, 1 off. In a way the principles are much like HST it appears. Gironda said you always need to take a 7-10 day break to continue with the gains.

    He recommended splitting the body into upper and lower and training each 2 times/week. You move fast, and the workout generally lasts about 30-45 minutes. Rest times are aimed at 5-15 seconds between sets, and once you can do 6 full sets of 6 reps with the same weight for each set (or 8 of 8 or 10 of 10...there are some other combinations) then you slightly add weight and aim for that same set/rep scheme again. It's constantly progressive. He was always about perfect form (but did admit slight cheating in certain exercises at certain times were ok) and totally isolating each muscle. And you do one exercise per muscle group and switch the exercises up between workouts.

    That's basically how he advised training, and he helped develop some of the most complete, balanced, natural physiques of any trainer ever. His ideas are still viewed as radical and many bodybuilders shun from his advice, yet so many have benefitted from his knowledge. In a way it's just like HST, because the ideas on this site are seen as radical as well.
     
  4. Heavy Duty dude

    Heavy Duty dude New Member

    Indeed it is close to HST. I had heard that some guys were training 3 weeks on/1 off back in those days but I didn't know that Gironda did that.

    Did you try it?
     
  5. Gallaman

    Gallaman New Member

    I haven't trained for more than two weeks with Gironda's methods, but once I reach a point where I feel I need a week off I will certainly take it. This site as well as Vince has convinced me it's worthwhile.
     
  6. BoSox

    BoSox New Member

    Gironda

    hmmm... what does this routine remind you of?
     
  7. Gallaman

    Gallaman New Member

    Yes HST and Vince's principles are similiar indeed.

    Good post BoSox.
     
  8. Jonas Olofsson

    Jonas Olofsson New Member

    Gallaman, Im doing a VG routine also, just one week into it but I LOVE IT! I look great, feel great and havent been so eager to train for years.

    VG was (in my limited knowledge) a genius, no more, no less.

    The information he preached is still years ahead of its time and makes HST look old and surpassed...IMHO.

    Jonas
     
  9. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    I asked a simular question on here concerning volume, tension, etc. also because of VG's routines. I had just started one and induced incredible DOMS. And was wondering why.

    Just for the record, I did a bit or reading and finally put the missing peices together on recruitment and tension, etc.

    In a nut shell, Lower weight will eventually do the exact same thing to a fiber as a heavier weight does. The heavier weight just happens to exhaust the MU's quicker.

    A muscle fiber cannot be subjected to 'more' tension, just the same tension but at a higher frequency. Fibers are either on or off, they can only contract at full tension or zero tension.
    So in effect, a fiber feels X amount of load no matter what the load is on the muscle. They feel this load until they start to fatigue, then the load would lessen on them, as they cannot produce as much force. So a lower weight just takes longer to induce fatigue as the fibers are resting more often and firing at a lower frequency.

    Ron
     
  10. Gallaman

    Gallaman New Member

    Jonas I'm in my second week of using VG's techinques and I really like em as well--I can't wait to work out.
    NWlifter what your saying is that heavier weight will cause increase in growth faster than lower weights because of an increase in tension? Certainly with VG's workouts you would be using much less weight, nowhere near normal failure.
    6 sets of 6 reps (15 seconds rest between sets) with 135 on the bench press versus 205 for 6 and one set...which would be better for hypertrophy?
    By the way Jonas, yes, Gironda was a genius...no kidding...something like a 160 IQ and he knew everything about anatomy/physiology so he took a scientific approach to training as does HST.
     
  11. Gallaman

    Gallaman New Member

    By the way, what is DOMS and MU's?
     
  12. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    It increases fatigue faster since more fibers are firing at the same instant in time.
    You can't increase the tension 'per fiber' by increasing the weight. A heavier weight only distributes the greater tension across more fibers at that point in time. Since the fibers are firing more often and at a greater frequency, they (the MU's) natural 'tire' faster.

    MU= motor unit (the nerve and fibers it controls)
    DOMS= delayed onset muscle soreness

    Ron
     
  13. BoSox

    BoSox New Member

    uhhh... for example?
     

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