Whats better?

M

Matt Daniels

New Member
Hey,
Today me an my friend were talking about our training routines and he was talking about how he thinks its a stupid idea to train the way I am (HST) and says that I won't build nearly as much muscle as I could with the way he does it (Mon:Tri Tue:Bi Wed:Leg Thursday:Chest Friday:back) He says that blood dosn't go to the muscles as well and that by not hitting the muscles as hard that you arent completely stimulating them,and even though I somewhat tryed to explain HST,I didnt really know enough about it to make valid points.Anyways im basically seeing if you guys actually think HST is the best mass training program their is or if this one is superior to HST and why or why not.
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HAHA I think the blood isn't going as well to his brain!!!

Obviously this guy has no idea what he's talking about, imo these meathead types are not only stupid, they're arrogant and pigheaded, and they only listen to people bigger than them. You can't explain it to him rationally, he won't believe you anyway, the only way to convince him HST is better is to get big with no steroids, and prove him wrong. Then he'll listen.

As to rational scientific reasons why HST is superior to a 4 day split:

For naturals (no steroids), protein synthethis and high anabolic hormones only lasts about 36-48 hours after training, so by training a muscle just once a week you spend 48 hours growing, and the rest just being normal. For Roiders its different, test levels stay high all week so they can get away with once a week.

There is no in-built progression to 4 day splits, you just lift the weight you "feel like doing" that day. Also high volume (lots of exercises and sets) means you can't lift as heavy.

There is no in-built SD, which means that RBE takes effect after a while and you stop growing, and won't know why.

Obviously a 4 day split with progression, heavy weights and SD would be very effective still, but not as effective as 3x per week for natural lifters.

If you explain that to him and he listens, then he's cool, if he acts pigheaded and starts saying it's BS without looking into it further, he's a meathead, don't waste your time.

Oh and show him the picture of Boris Kleine, the german monster who Bryan trained HST style. He used steroids of course, but it shows that HST is just as effective, if not more so, for muscle growth.
 
Matt, the sad sorry truth about weight training is - it all works.

Yeah the splits work great, you don't have to use gear for them to work.

One body part/day like in max ot works great too, you will make excellent gains on it.

So does the "real" old school way of simply doing 3x10 for everything being worked at 70% of your one rep max using progressive resistance.

I've tried them all except Starr's 5x5 and I'm going to try it when I stop growing with HST. 5x5 is VERY similar to HST though except it's mostly a strength program not a bodybuilding program that also happens to give good size and weight gains as a bonus.

However, I've made more gains in the last 3 months since starting HST than I've ever made at any similar time period in my life. How does 30lbs without getting fat sound to you? Granted, I'm eating like a north korean at a cat farm and the bulk of the gains came in the first two months when I was doing a higher volume than most variation of HST (15x2, 3x10, 5x5, 5x5). The fact remains that HST is the biggest mass gainer I've ever tried.

I'm sitting at over 200lbs now and was 173 on July 8th following an injury and a bout of pneumonia.

I workout at home and honestly am small and weak - as I said, I only weigh 200lbs. But it's funny if I visit a gym and am in the early 15's people ask "how does he get like that lifting so light". If I'm in the late 5's they all want to do what I'm doing.

If you like the program and it suits your goals...then stick with it and tell your friend to stick it. When you pass him up on gains and asks for help. Tell him he should start wasting his time too.
 
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(Matt Daniels @ Oct. 18 2006,23:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey,
Today me an my friend were talking about our training routines and he was talking about how he thinks its a stupid idea to train the way I am (HST) and says that I won't build nearly as much muscle as I could with the way he does it (Mon:Tri Tue:Bi Wed:Leg  Thursday:Chest  Friday:back) He says that blood dosn't go to the muscles as well and that by not hitting the muscles as hard that you arent completely stimulating them,and even though I somewhat tryed to explain HST,I didnt really know enough about it to make valid points.Anyways im basically seeing if you guys actually think HST is the best mass training program their is or if this one is superior to HST and why or why not.  
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Is your friend bigger than you are ? Has he been training as long as you ? Before you guys started working out, did you have similar physiques ?
 
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(Matt Daniels @ Oct. 18 2006,23:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey,
Today me an my friend were talking about our training routines and he was talking about how he thinks its a stupid idea to train the way I am (HST) and says that I won't build nearly as much muscle as I could with the way he does it (Mon:Tri Tue:Bi Wed:Leg Thursday:Chest Friday:back) He says that blood dosn't go to the muscles as well and that by not hitting the muscles as hard that you arent completely stimulating them,and even though I somewhat tryed to explain HST,I didnt really know enough about it to make valid points.Anyways im basically seeing if you guys actually think HST is the best mass training program their is or if this one is superior to HST and why or why not.
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Exercise is one of those areas in life where people feel that they're automatically qualified for an honorary doctorate by subscribing to Flex.

Based on the argument presented, you'd be better spent wasting your brain cells with a fine alcoholic drink. I recommend Jack and Coke or Cranberry and Vodka.
 
The great thing about HST is that you can keep fatigue down to a minimum but still stimulate growth effectively. You can stimulate as much growth in three sessions a week as some folks will do in 6 sessions a week on a split system. This is especially true for newbie lifters.

Also, you should never be in a situation where you are so sore you can't move - although you might get a bit sore after SD. Most folks think that soreness is the indicator that you did enough to grow so they do a ton of volume with isos. Not so. You can stimulate growth and have very little soreness.

A lot of the recommendations for an HST style program (like focusing on big compounds first) are good recommendations for any program but rarely practiced because all the mags show bbers doing isos.

But remember, HST (or any other program) will do diddley squat for growth if you don't eat (and to a lesser degree, rest) enough.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">, I'm eating like a north korean at a cat farm </div>

Now that right there is funny. I don't care who you are.
 
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(Matt Daniels @ Oct. 18 2006,22:01)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">He says that blood dosn't go to the muscles as well and that by not hitting the muscles as hard that you arent completely stimulating them.</div>
One of the muscle-science nerds may have the exact information and studies, but my recollection is that once you get to load of around 75%-80% of your 1RM, you've recruited all the muscle fibers from the start. At slightly lesser loads you get to 100% recruitment after a couple of reps. It's just a matter of how frequently they have to &quot;fire&quot; (something called rate coding) to get the weight lifted.

Lots of good comments, Peak's observation about protein synthesis is important. If you click on the &quot;HST&quot; link at the top of the board and go through Bryan's write up you can review the principles and reason for them pretty quickly. Like vagrant says, lots of programs can work--for a while. What I find interesting about HST is that lots of drug-free people have reported that it continues to work for them cycle after cycle.

Oh, and I agree with etothepii--vagrant really has a way with words.
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Probably &quot;politically incorrect&quot; but I about fell off my chair laughing.
 
As an aside, his split looks terrible...tris and bis first thing in the week? Tell him to at least prioritze his large muscle groups.

Whay not get him to try it? I mean, what is 8-12 weeks in the grand scheme of things? Get him to give it a real go and evaluate it for himself. I know I've been convinced, and that was after 10 years on a 5 day split.
 
Well I wouldnt tell him to try it if its really that great.Me an him have always kind of been in competition,yet he has always been bigger then me and more cut(hes an ecto) so I want to use everything in my power to try and become as big or bigger then him to show him I can be just as good
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. If I were to start a log/help thread, do you guys think you could help me in attaining this goal?
 
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(Matt Daniels @ Oct. 19 2006,15:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well I wouldnt tell him to try it if its really that great.Me an him have always kind of been in competition,yet he has always been bigger then me and more cut(hes an ecto) so I want to use everything in my power to try and become as big or bigger then him to show him I can be just as good
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In that case, tell him to do HIT, really blast those muscles, no more than once a month.
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Tell him that a split working each muscle group 1x/week is overtraining if you really work hard like a man
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heh yeah HST vs HIT showdown:

20 reps 3x per week vs. 1 30sec rep once per month
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Boris Kleine vs. Mike Mentzer

sweet.

Matt Daniels this is one of the most supportive and helpful forums I have ever seen. And there are so many guys on here who have done heaps of cycles, if you run into any problems chances are there's heap of guys who have been through it before and can advise you.
 
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(Lifting N Tx @ Oct. 19 2006,22:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Matt Daniels @ Oct. 19 2006,15:32)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Well I wouldnt tell him to try it if its really that great.Me an him have always kind of been in competition,yet he has always been bigger then me and more cut(hes an ecto) so I want to use everything in my power to try and become as big or bigger then him to show him I can be just as good
tounge.gif
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In that case, tell him to do HIT, really blast those muscles, no more than once a month.  
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Tell him that a split working each muscle group 1x/week is overtraining if you really work hard like a man  
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No, no, no! You could be much more devious than that! Tell him that you are doing HIT instead. Then, when you secretly do HST and start packing on the muscle (assuming you can get to eat enough!) he will be amazed and might start looking into HIT. That should give you enough time to grow some more while his gains completely grind to a halt. Oh, the humanity!  
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