Questioning HST Methods

mister_7

New Member
Let me begin by saying I'm fairly new to bodybuilding and this is my first time on a message board, so I'm a nube squared... oh, and I'm a bad speller, so I'll look especially dumb today...
Ok, I've been to thinkmuscle, love the site, and have tried to set up an HST system for myself and two others. From the get-go it's looked good (we'll begin after a week of SD - we just determined our maxes), and I think I understand the system, but here's where I have problems:
1. I assume strength is a linear equation since it was explained by the formula y= m(x) + b. This is a correct assumption, right? Strength isn't based on the Bell Curve or anything crazy like that, right?... cause if it is that will make the rest of these questions pointless...
2. To find our maxes we grabbed random weights and worked until failure; averaging the reps per set and ploting them with the 'reps' as the X value and 'weight' as the Y value. We did this with three different weights (because it's best to plot with three variables rather than two) and used a graphing calculator to find 'm' and 'b' (see above equation).
With this we found our maxes for 15, 10, 5 and 2 (and the math checked out in the gym), but the problem came when figuring out what we should do for the first week of HST. Because my 'm' value (rate of change in weight per rep) was the highest, it gave me a HUGE variance. For instance: in squats I'm to start with 103lbs the first session, and end with 623 for the final week, while my friend will start with 213 and end with 555!
I've realized that this is because the decremental weight is 5% of 5RM, and my 5RM is higher than my friend's.
Should this be? Has this direct relationship between variance and weight/strength been taken into account (because it becomes quite significant when it comes to legs)?
Sorry if this doesn't make sense. I hope someone can figure out what I'm trying to say...
 
You dont count forward 5% from you max, you count backward, lol.
 
5% of 5rm is the basic rule of thumb in deciding the size of increments to use. Or, as Bryan prefers, 10-20 pounds for legs, 5-10 pounds for upper body. The research suggests between 2.5-5% from memory. Less than that, the tissue may not 'recognise' the change in load making the repeated bout effect more likely to set in. More than that may damage the muscle too much.

If you 5rm were 400pds then you could use 20 pds. The 5rm cycle of your workout would be 300,320,340,360,380,400.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ilFacell @ Feb. 27 2004,7:09)]You dont count forward 5% from you max, you count backward, lol.
Yeah . . . If you could 5Rep 600+lbs on the squat, your 1RM would be near 1000lbs and you, my friend, would be a world record holder! Say your 5RM is 315lbs in the squat, the first day of your 2weeks of 5 reps, you start with 275lbs, then by 10lb increments, 285/295/305/315/325, so that on the last day, your 325lbs for 5 reps is a new best max for you, 10 lbs over your last 5RM in the squat. Get it. . . .?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (majutsu @ Feb. 27 2004,7:22)]
wow.gif
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (ilFacell @ Feb. 27 2004,7
wow.gif
9)]You dont count forward 5% from you max, you count backward.
Yeah . . . If you could 5Rep 600+lbs on the squat, your 1RM would be near 1000lbs and you, my friend, would be a world record holder! Say your 5RM is 315lbs in the squat, the first day of your 2weeks of 5 reps, you start with 275lbs, then by 10lb increments, 285/295/305/315/325, so that on the last day, your 325lbs for 5 reps is a new best max for you, 10 lbs over your last 5RM in the squat. Get it. . . .?
Yes, and let me add that it isn't necessary to "predict" that you will surpass your previously established maxes. It is recommended that you simply plan on using your established max for the last day of each rep block.

Many people do however surpass their maxes. In this case simply wait until the next cycle and bump up your finishing weight, while trying to start as close to your prvious starting weight as possible. This allows for a great increase in weight loads from beginning to end and in my experience results in a more consistant stimulus during the cycle. All of this assumes that you strategically deconditioned yourself before your second cycle.
 
Adendum:

I realized I wrote 'squat' rather than leg press after I got to bed last night and figured that would get into trouble out of this. Not trying to misrepresent myself or seem stronger, just got two quad names mixed up.

I was also suddenly afraid that I mixed up the X & Y axis, but since no one's pointed that out it looks like I'm alright.

I think we'll use 20 pound DECREMENTS (I know that it was decreasing - I mean, that's obvious) instead of figuring the 5%.

Thanks for the clarification.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (majutsu @ Feb. 27 2004,9:22)]
wow.gif
9-->
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ilFacell @ Feb. 27 2004,7
wow.gif
9)]You dont count forward 5% from you max, you count backward, lol.
Yeah . . . If you could 5Rep 600+lbs on the squat, your 1RM would be near 1000lbs and you, my friend, would be a world record holder! Say your 5RM is 315lbs in the squat, the first day of your 2weeks of 5 reps, you start with 275lbs, then by 10lb increments, 285/295/305/315/325, so that on the last day, your 325lbs for 5 reps is a new best max for you, 10 lbs over your last 5RM in the squat. Get it. . . .?
"Yeah . . . If you could 5Rep 600+lbs on the squat, your 1RM would be near 1000lbs and you, my friend, would be a world record holder!"

You are absolutely incorrect.
 
Hi mister_7,

For the sake of further clarification, I should mention that you will use your 5RM weights on the last day of your 5s, and that you 'decrease' the weights by 5% for each day preceding your last day of the 5s. Likewise, you use your 10RM weight on the last day of the 10s, and decrease the weight by 5% of your 5RM for each preceding day in the 10s. Same goes for the 15s. Remember: During the planning phase, we start with our 5RM and work backwards through the entire HST cycle, assigning the weights we'll use for each workout day. I think you already understand this, but I couldn't be entirely certain when I read your original post.

When you write "variance," you mean the difference between the weights used on the last day of the 5s and the first day of the 15s. Right? Well, if you friend has different RMs, then your friend's variance will be different than yours, even though you both may be decrementing by 5% of your 5RM weight. Moreover, if you don't like the level of variance in your planned cycle, you can repeat some weights to bring up some of the lower, beginning weights in the 15s and 10s.

Hope this helps.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Baoh @ Feb. 27 2004,12:44)]"Yeah . . . If you could 5Rep 600+lbs on the squat, your 1RM would be near 1000lbs and you, my friend, would be a world record holder!"
You are absolutely incorrect.
You are right! I use the rep calcs here: http://www.engr.mun.ca/~butt/mrcalc2.html

They show 3 or 4 different methods of calculating 1RM but they are more or less the same result. I didn't calculate a 690 5RM, but you are right his 1RM would be like 800lbs. This would definitely NOT be a record, but a hell of a repectable state level power lift. Certainly kind of odd for a self-described newbie. But I was just speaking off the cuff, you are right, my numbers were all wrong. But it was obvious he was incrementing the wrong way or had made a typo, as he had.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (majutsu @ Feb. 27 2004,3:25)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Baoh @ Feb. 27 2004,12:44)]"Yeah . . . If you could 5Rep 600+lbs on the squat, your 1RM would be near 1000lbs and you, my friend, would be a world record holder!"
You are absolutely incorrect.
You are right! I use the rep calcs here: http://www.engr.mun.ca/~butt/mrcalc2.html
They show 3 or 4 different methods of calculating 1RM but they are more or less the same result. I didn't calculate a 690 5RM, but you are right his 1RM would be like 800lbs. This would definitely NOT be a record, but a hell of a repectable state level power lift. Certainly kind of odd for a self-described newbie. But I was just speaking off the cuff, you are right, my numbers were all wrong. But it was obvious he was incrementing the wrong way or had made a typo, as he had.
People are too different.

Rep calculators mean nothing. Until you attempt and get 800 or even 650 after Squatting 600 for five, you cannot predict what you can do.
 
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