1st Cycle -

[ironKid]

Don’t want to bore anyone with details, so long story short. I’m a 31 years old guy who has been training for about 8 years. I moved a lot so I was in and out of the gym more than I’d liked. I reached my peak about 2.5 years ago. I was 250 pounds for a 6.4ft height. I squatted about 330 pounds on the smith machine. I was big, but had a lot of fat.

In the last year I couldn’t train much, just 3 months consistently so some of the muscle turned into fat. In August I tried a CKD (Cyclical Keto Diet), and it worked fine. I have lost 25 pounds in 3 months with little exercise. According to my bathroom scale (one of those who measure the body fat) I have lost only 5 pounds of muscle.

I then started reading about ketogenic diets:  “Anabolic diet”, “Bodyoups”, “UD2”, “The Ketogenic Diet”. Along my investigation I heard about HST. I was very skeptic (I still am), but I thought it was worth to try. None of my friends believed in keto diets so they might be also wrong about HST.

So here I am, willing to give it a try. My current stats are:
- height 6.4 ft
- weight 220 pounds
- %BF 20%

The BF measure is according to my bathroom scale. I think is too much, are they really reliable?

My goal is to gain weight without adding fat (and if possible to reduce it). I know how much it costs to get rid of it.

I hope you can help me guys, I’m a dedicated guy but need some advise and coaching.

 

[ironKid]

After reading much in the forum, this is the training I have set up:

A Training
2 x Squat
2 x Bench Press
2 x Lat Pulldown behind neck
2 x Seated Military press
1 x Reverse Lat Pulldown
1 x Close Grip Bench Press
1 x Calf raise

B Training
2 x Stiff legged Deadlifts
2 x Inclined Bench Press
2 x Bent-over row
2 x Upright row
1 x Reverse Lat Pulldown
1 x Close Grip Bench Press
1 x Calf press

I train MWF. On Tuesdays and Thursdays I do HIIT for about 25 minutes (5 wu + 15 HIIT + 5cool down).

I’m on the first week of 15s and found that my workout lasts not longer than 35 minutes, including 5 min warm-up at the beginning and 5 min stretching at the end.

I have read about the importance of keeping the volume down, but I still think this is too low. Or maybe I just need someone to remind me again  

Any comments are very welcome and appreciated.

 

[RUSS]

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Any comments are very welcome and appreciated.</div>


OK


<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Along my investigation I heard about HST. I was very skeptic (I still am), but I thought it was worth to try.</div>

What is &quot;HST&quot; really? it's really just an observation of the four things that are present in all effective programs - albiet in varying proportions depending on the focus of the routine(s). The suggested templates are offered as general examples of how these four ideas can be organized in such a way as to constitute proportions conducive to mostly size with (comparitively low) strength gains. If the most strength oriented program you've ever tried was along the lines of a 5x5 - you may very well feel that HST gives good strength gains too - it's all relative really on strength , HST is focused squarely on hypertrophy - so to be skeptical of it indicates that perhaps you haven't yet grasped exactly what it is and is not. Chances are that over your 8 years of training you were already doing &quot;HST&quot; - but perhaps the variables were not arranged in the optimal proportions for hypertrophy. Basically HST &quot;arranges&quot; these principals (variables) in such a way as to create &quot;an intelligent compromise&quot; between them suited for hypertrophy - the only thing one can really be skeptical of once this is understood is wether the prescribed &quot;recipe&quot; is more effective than another &quot;recipe&quot;.



<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I have read about the importance of keeping the volume down, but I still think this is too low. Or maybe I just need someone to remind me again </div>



It's not so much about keeping volume down as it is manipulating volume to enable frequency , you are in the first week of 15's - hang in there , by cycles end it will all make sense in an experiencial way that surpasses (by far) an intellectual understanding of it when someone explains it to you but you havent gone through it - kind of like sex ...

Welcome to the board , and good luck!

 

[colby2152]

Are you still doing squats in a Smith machine? Also, your bf% may indeed be lower as I pointed out in your thread about methods of measuring bf%. As far as your goals are concerned. Are you happy with your state of leanness? If so, continue with some type of bulk (slow ~ 250 calories above maintenance, reg ~ 500-550 over). I wouldn't go over 550 calories because that would be more than 1 lb gained/week, and would result in more fat.

For your workout, it looks pretty good for starters, but my recommendations will be similar to others: replace SLDL with ol' regular deadlift, remove iso's, bla bla bla. Have fun with your workout, follow HST principles, and make sure your diet is in line with your goals.

 

[ironKid]

Hi colby,

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Are you still doing squats in a Smith machine?</div>
yes, i'm currently based in Morocco and my gym does not have a squat bench, so i use the smith machine. Same reason for the pulldown, I'd prefer chins-up, but no chance on my gym  

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As far as your goals are concerned.  Are you happy with your state of leanness?  If so, continue with some type of bulk (slow ~ 250 calories above maintenance, reg ~ 500-550 over).  I wouldn't go over 550 calories because that would be more than 1 lb gained/week, and would result in more fat.
</div>
my goal is to bulk without adding (much) fat  

, so I'm trying to go for a slow bulk. I'm currently eating 3,500 kcal/day: 25%P - 12%CH - 63%F. It's a TKD with all the carbs around my workout, about 50% 2 hours before (beans and rice) and the other 50% after workout (Vitargo+creatine). Regarding the fat, I eat 25% saturated and the rest if half monoinsat and half poliinsat
Let's see how it works and i can do some adjustments.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> replace SLDL with ol' regular deadlift </div>
ok, but then shall i increase the workload on the legs. I want to hit the harmstrings, they are my weakest part, especially because I have very strong gluteus, what emphasizes the underdevelopment on the back of my legs. Smith squats focus too much on the tights with little impact on the harmstrings, right?

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">remove iso's </div>
which isos should i remove? my workout is already about 25min, isn't it too short?

And I have a final question, is 2 sets enough? i'm handling little weight by the moment and do not feel tired at all, would it be right to increase to 3 sets on multiarticular exercises.

Ok guys, this is for today. I'm going to the gym for my 3rd workout, today I finish my first week on HST. I'll post the w/o next monday. Have a nice weekend!  

 

[ironKid]

<div>
(RUSS @ Nov. 09 2007,15:20)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">HST is focused squarely on hypertrophy - so to be skeptical of it indicates that perhaps you haven't yet grasped exactly what it is and is not. </div>
Hypertrophy... uhmm  

I understand the principles and i truly want to be HST converted  

, it's the first time I actually read a scientifical explanation behind a training method. And especially after all my investigation on keto diets i know the 'undeniable truths' are usually wrong.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It's not so much about keeping volume down as it is manipulating volume to enable frequency , you are in the first week of 15's - hang in there </div>
But how do i know if i'm working enough? Shouldn't my traning be longer in time, let's say 40 mins?

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Welcome to the board , and good luck!

</div>
Thanks russ, appreciate your help, i'll let you know how it goes.

 

[RUSS]

<div>
(ironKid @ Nov. 09 2007,11:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(RUSS @ Nov. 09 2007,15:20)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">HST is focused squarely on hypertrophy - so to be skeptical of it indicates that perhaps you haven't yet grasped exactly what it is and is not. </div>
Hypertrophy... uhmm  

I understand the principles and i truly want to be HST converted  

, it's the first time I actually read a scientifical explanation behind a training method. And especially after all my investigation on keto diets i know the 'undeniable truths' are usually wrong.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It's not so much about keeping volume down as it is manipulating volume to enable frequency , you are in the first week of 15's - hang in there </div>
But how do i know if i'm working enough? Shouldn't my traning be longer in time, let's say 40 mins?

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Welcome to the board , and good luck!

</div>
Thanks russ, appreciate your help, i'll let you know how it goes.</div>
Seems like you have a healthy aversion to dogma , nurture that - it will keep HST from turning into a cookie cutter system for you and instead transform it into an education on programming variables with optimal balance/compromise for various goals. Your training will become longer most likely as the cycle progresses. Your initial re-actions to HST are fairly typical of former volume trainers - if you'll indulge me I'd like to give you a brief &quot;over-view&quot; :

1)Volume Training(includes most BBing programs - up to the extreme of GVT) because the variable of volume is prioritized , sacrifices must be made in frequency and loads - strength which IMHO is the &quot;foundation&quot; so to speak upon which any consequential mass is built, is woefully de-emphasized . Typically muscles are hit too infrequently to even approach a chronic condition of growth.


2) HIT- sacrifices frequency and volume in favor of load , with an eye towards what you've expressed concern about above - need I say more?

I could go on and on but probably dont need to for you to get what I'm pointing out. Suffice it to say that ANY program will arrange the variables in such a way to promote optimal focus on a certain result - HST has done that for hypertrophy.

IMHO if a lifter began by pure strength training and then switched to HST or another(s) hypertrophy program after an impressive strength/mass base was built (anywhere from 2-5 years of &quot;chasing numbers&quot they would be (and in the real life incidents when this actually happens almost always are) light years ahead of the &quot;lets build the basement WHILE we also paint the third floor window casings&quot; type lifter( that would be the overwhelming majority of lifters BTW) , cutting one month bulking the next , here a strength cycle there a hypertrophy cycle everywhere a quack quack and old cDonalds farm never gets to be all it could be because of a general unfocus and trying to serve too many masters at once.

 

[ironKid]

thank you Russ, appreciate you advise. I'm gonna stick to the program no matter what. And then when the cycle ends i can get a proper conclusion. I will only modify my diet along.

This is my first log on the diary, i'll keep you updated:

09/11 - 15s wk 01 - workout 3/24

Squat 2 x 175
Bench Press 2 x 110
Lat Pulldown 2 x 100
Seated Military press 2 x 80
Rev Lat Pulldown                1 x 80
Close Grip Bench Press 1 x 82
Calf press                1 x 220

It took me 30 minutes today. Last 2/3 reps on squats and military press were hard, the rest was pretty easy.

Appart from that I felt great today, no sore or stiffness.

i'm planning on weighting weekly, i'll keep  you posted.

 

[ironKid]

12/11 - 15s wk 02 - workout 4/24

Stiff legged Deadlifts 2x110
Inclined Bench Press 2x110
Bent-over row 2x110
Upright row 2x55
Calf press                1x220
Rev Lat Pulldown                1x85
Close Grip Bench Press 1x90


It took me 25 minutes today. No major difficulties. I think i'm recovering part of my lost strenght (i was out of the gym about 2.5 months before starting HST). Can I do more load or stick to the figures set at the beginning of the program? As I understand HST (hey Russ, here it goes my 'healthy aversion to dogma'  

) the goal is to hit your 15RM by end of the 15s, right? so what if I have improved my 15RM along this two weeks?

During the last two days I had some slight soreness on my legs. Not much anyway.

 

[ironKid]

BTW guys, I'm starting to prepare my 10s and have a question.

I'm doing 2 sets of 15s (=30 reps), what should I do on my 10s? Should I do 2 sets (=20 reps) or go up to 3 sets (=30 reps). If I do only 2 sets I'm decreasing my workload, right?, and HST is about progressive load, but if I go up to 3 sets, how many should I do on my 5s? I think 6 (= 30 reps) are definetely too many

So many questions, and so little time to ask...

 

[RUSS]

Many ,( myself included ) have adjusted loads during a progression - with 8 years experience I'm sure you have the where with all to make a sound judgement on this - I usually add another 5-8 lbs. to my next jump if I feel the charted increases are too far off . I try to be conservative though , as it would be easy to mistake the first 3-4 workouts of a rep range as &quot;too easy&quot; but when viewed as part of a progression - they may actually be fine .

One thing to consider is that you are (at the time of this post) still in 15's - I wouln't bother adjusting (or considering it) until the 10's. 15's are really for trying to flush the joints and connective tissue with lactic acid with the idea of preparing for the heavier loads to come as the cycle progresses - so with that in mind it would be more beneficial to perhaps add another set , lift faster ect. as the goal for 15's would be more about creating some &quot;burn&quot; than nessessarily lifting maximum load - either way , it wont make or break your cycle.

The other thing to keep in mind is that different rep ranges feel easier to different people ( personal fiber ratios would have much to do with this) , with myself for instance 15's are the HARDEST rep range for me - so if I was to adjust load downwards and across the board in responce - I may end up too light in my 10's and 5's .

As for rep/set schemes I personally think that 1x15,2x10 and 3x5 is a good time tested place to start from for your first cycle and adjust from there .

 

[Lol]

As ever, Russ' advice is all good.  

Only thing I would change about your routine would be to swap SLDLs for normal deads. SLDLs are a great hamstring exercise but you could be shifting a lot more weight and taxing a lot more muscles if you just did normal deads. I tend to suggest that squats and SLDLs are a good combo if performed during the same w/o but once you get stronger that becomes  tougher to do along with the rest of your workout. Normal deads also hit the hammies hard and are such a great mass builder that I now think that they should be included from the get go, if at all possible.

If you did make the SLDL/dead swap then I would also switch bent-over rows and lat pulldowns so you aren't doing deads and rows on the same day. Just a bit kinder to your lower back.

As far as upping the calculated loads during a cycle is concerned, unless you are wildly out there is very little point; much better to push for new maxes towards the end of the cycle by continuing to increment during post-5s. What you don't want to do is to stay nearer to failure for more of the cycle up to that point. Manage CNS fatigue well during the 15s and 10s and then you will be able to push harder during 5s and beyond.

If you get to your 10RM w/o and you think you should have been lifting more for a particular exercise, make a note and increase your 10RM next cycle. If it's really hard or if you don't make 10 reps, leave it the same next cycle but push hard during the 5s to follow. Hopefully, you should find that next time around you manage it much more easily and can then increase it for the following cycle.

 

[ironKid]

thank you russ, i don't want to sound like i'm buttering you up, but i appreciate the time and advise you are giving me, especially being myself a newcomer. I'll finish the 15s with the current workload and wait until begining of 2nd wk of 10s to see if I should increase the load. Maybe 15s are easy for me but i'll struggle with the 10s.

I also liked Lol's comment about pushing harder on post-5s to increase strength in next cycle 10s, it makes a lot of sense... now that someone told me  

Lol about your comments on SLDL, what do you think about this set up:

A
Squat
Bench Press
Bent-over row
Seated Military press
Calf raise
Rev Lat Pulldown
Close Grip Bench Press

B
Deads
Inclined Bench Press
Lat Pulldown
Upright row
Calf press
Rev Lat Pulldown
Close Grip Bench Press

I have one additional question, is just one legs exercise enough?

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As for rep/set schemes I personally think that 1x15,2x10 and 3x5 is a good time tested place to start from for your first cycle and adjust from there </div>
1x15 sounds very little. I'm only doing 7 exercises per w/o, i could finish in 10 minutes, is this right?

 

[RUSS]

2 or even 3 x 15's won't make or break the cycle . One perspective is to kind of &quot;zoom out&quot; for a second and consider the cycle as a whole - 15's in this view serve the purposes of the previously mentioned lactic acid period of course , but also from another programming perspective it serves as both an extension of the de/un- loading period namely SD ( to a degree ) as well as simulating the &quot; ramp up&quot; or &quot;ease back in&quot; phases found in most effective systems - (again this is to a degree - HST is its own beast ) , although Hst is unique enough to thwart &quot;exact&quot; comparisons to most other models - by &quot;zooming out&quot; to an overview of the cycle and how it's going to &quot;fit together' one phase to the next , and considering it this way , a lot of perspective can be gained beyond the typical &quot;block thinking&quot; of each rep range alone and the pressure to do more and more at less appropriate times that this view can cause. Many lifters do 2x15 , many do 3x15 and of course many do 1x15 - as this is largely metabolic work - it is my opinion that 1 set is fine and gives one wiggle room to accumulate more volume over subsequent cycles. Of course I'm quite used to newer HSTer's and the fact that (in general) they just WONT do this - it's 2x15 at the minimum for most - and this is ok really , not a cycle breaker if any rep range has the most room for personal interpretation its IMHO the 15's.

One way to look at a cycle (just one mind you) would be:

SD - basically a de/unload by any other name WOULD be just as sweet apparently...
15's - of course the whole lactic acid thing , but also an ease back in / ramp up period
10's - if one was interested in utilizing a &quot;volume accumulation&quot; phase , this is where it would fit best...anyway you look at it this would be the hypertrophy phase to the 15's metabolic/endurance phase and the 5's strength phase.
5's- fairly straightforwards strength phase although 5 (in comparison to say 3 and under as a rep range) does offer some growth also .
negatives (or 3's or extended 5's) - a good way to look at this is as a last chance to hammer stuff before SD - in other words cause enough damage to warrant what would be considered fairly long and fairly frequent deloading compared to a lot of other systems. I think this may be one of the least understood phases - lets take a 14 day SD as an example , connective tissue is getting rest but also is being addressed for ANOTHER 14 days of 15's!!! CNS is going to be pretty much ready to go also - muscle is the quickest recovering of these three so it makes sense to hammer muscle right before the SD to give it something to recover from , I probably could have worded that better but I'm sort of pressed for time at the moment - hopefully it gives ytou something to ponder that will add to your cycle in some way. Good luck!

 

[_tim]

My hunch is that Russ suggested the 1 x 15 based on the amount of lactic acid that floods the system, especially as you progress the load. It may seem like quite a small amount of exercise - but once you actually try it, you may find that it's enough to do the job. If you finish your set of 15 and it hasn't fatigued you in any way, perhaps another set at that weight is in order, or perhaps you'll need to revise your loads upward. I can't count on all my fingers or toes the number of times I had to re-adjust my progression - sometimes I was too light, other times, way too heavy. Some of this is about finding what works for you; that 1 x 15 works for some folks new to HST. Seeing as you have 8 years behind you, 1 x 15 may truly not be enough. Give it a go and see.

Good luck, and welcome to the board!

Edited to say... Russ beat me to the punch!

 

[ironKid]

thank you guys, i see the point in your comments and definitely will try 1x15s on my next cycle. However, i think i'm going to finish with 2 sets during 15s (i'm only 2 w/o left). On one hand, I had an SD of about 2.5 months, so i don't think a bit more of extra work will  harm me, besides I think I started too low the cycle, and you all know how fast you gain your strength back after some time out. One the other hand, doing 1 set on my last 2 w/o is somehow a decrease in the mechanical load.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">10's - if one was interested in utilizing a &quot;volume accumulation&quot; phase , this is where it would fit best...anyway you look at it this would be the hypertrophy phase</div>
If the truly hypertrophy phase is the 10s, do you recomend to increase the calorie intake a bit more over the other phases'

And other question that just came to my mind, have you thought or tried to loose weight on the 15s, gain it on the 10s, and keep it on the 5s and post-5s?. In theory, gains during a cycle would be lower, but they ratio muscle/fat gain would be higher.

 

[Lol]

<div>
(ironKid @ Nov. 14 2007,09:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">And other question that just came to my mind, have you thought or tried to loose weight on the 15s, gain it on the 10s, and keep it on the 5s and post-5s?. In theory, gains during a cycle would be lower, but they ratio muscle/fat gain would be higher.</div>
Trying to loose weight during the 15s is a bad idea. You only want to be cutting when you are lifting reasonably heavy loads which 15s are not. Also, it's a much better idea to be focussed on one thing at a time. Generally speaking, if you try to incorporate both cutting and bulking into a single cycle you will meet with disappointing results. There have been numerous threads on just this topic so a search should throw something up.

 

[ironKid]

yes, that makes sense. I've got the bad habit of trying to re-invent the wheel all time...
I was thinking on using 15s as depletion workouts in a CKD diet, but I will focus on one thing at a time. It's bulking for now...

 

[ironKid]

... but again, what about increasing the calorie intake on the 10s over the other 2 phases, does this make any sense?

 

[ironKid]

14/11 - 15s wk 02 - workout 5/24

Squat  2x180
Bench Press  2x120
Bent-over row  2x120
Seated Military press  2x90
Calf raise  1x260
Rev Lat Pulldown  1x90
Close Grip Bench Press  1x105

It took me 30min. I had some trouble with the second set of military press, so I stopped about 2 reps left to avoid muscle failure. During the last 2 days I had a slight sore on my lower back, not much.

I'm planning to weight on Saturday (i don't see the point on weighting everyday), I think I have lost some weight, if so I'll increase the calorie intake. Regarding any changes, I don't feel anything different but my chest. It feels fuller, especially the upper chest.