A New Post!

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by Old and Grey, Apr 23, 2017.

  1. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

  2. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    Nice to see someone else posting been all on my own since the 14th (or 15th), will read the article later during lunch
     
    Brixtonian likes this.
  3. Old and Grey

    Old and Grey Super Moderator Staff Member

    The article is okay as far as promoting frequency. However, it lacks in many other areas. I would just like to see some activity on here before I look elsewhere.
     
  4. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    I think you will probably have to look elsewhere unless @HST_Rihad reappears or at least someone like him to liven this place up.

    I haven't heard from @Jester for a while and @Lol is still recovering from injury, it is a shame as one of the best forums for genuine information without people pushing particular supplements / SARMS / AAS etc
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  5. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    I just stopped in to see if any cobwebs were removed, a few new posts since I was here months ago lol
    I'd love to see this forum active again, man those were the days (on here in the early 2000's, with Dan, Blade, + so many others posting every day). Miss those days!
     
  6. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    It is a shame about this forum, I am hoping that it starts to get a bit more traffic but it probably needs some controversial characters to try and stimulate debate
     
  7. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    Yes, some people interested and some good topics again like the old days, back in 2005 or so, we used to have some fun discussions on here. Some of Vince Basil's posts , and all the old regulars, it was a way to work your brain more than the weightroom worked the muscles.
     
  8. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    I'm going to make an effort to get back here much more often. As you can see there are web admin issues that need some attention too. But, for what it's worth, I've continued to research muscle hypertrophy over the years and am anxious to help folks out where I can.
     
    Old and Grey likes this.
  9. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    Any updates from your research?
     
  10. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    Hey well, welcome back to your forum lol Good to see ya here!
    Yes, anything new and cool in the research ?

    Hey and what's that book as your avatar? Looks like a real HST book?
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
  11. Renky

    Renky Member

    And we really look forward to your input Bryan! :)
     
  12. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    As for research I recently conducted a clinical trial on blood flow restriction. The question was to see if it is the total time of occlusion that is responsible for the beneficial effects. I compared continuous occlusion (all four sets done under constant occlusion), intermittent occlusion (occlusion released during rest between sets then reapplied), and Time matched intermittent occlusion (occlusion released during rest between sets with occlusion maintained after last set until the total time of occlusion matched the continuous occlusion condition). My hypothesis is that it is the total time of occlusion that is a primary factor all things being equal. I have not yet finished examining the data so I don't know the results...
     
  13. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    Oh wow interesting!
    I wonder if it's the actual metabolic byproducts hanging around that trigger some of the molecules....
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
  14. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    We know that oxidative stress triggers (or can trigger) beneficial pathways. In my dissertation I will need to provide a review of the data exploring the connection between oxidative stress and signaling pathways. pH may also play a role. Unsequestered calcium ions as well. My money is on oxidants.
     
  15. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    Ah interesting again. Man that brings back memories, I remember me, Dan and a few others talking about signaling on here all those years ago. I had found some info. on high intracellular calcium as a possible trigger. Me and Dan started trying to create a training method with that, (extended tetanic contractions to increase intracellular calcium) we were going to call it TNT, but we couldn't think of something for the N in the middle! Tetanic 'something' Training. But, there is 'something' with 'tension-fatigue', .. well many things. I think tension induces more rapid fatigue through faster ATP turnover and that's how higher tensions 'work'. Oxidants is interesting... and troubling, that would mean anti-oxidants could blunt hypertrophy?
     
  16. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    That's precisely the question. What research that has been done thus far points to a possibility, but nothing definitive at this point. A link between oxidative stress and hypertrophy has been mapped for cardiac muscle cells (J. Biol. Chem. 1999, 274, 19323–19328). But the only trial I know of using regular subjects and regular resistance exercise was less informative (free full text - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25384788) The data is much stronger for blunting the beneficial effects of aerobic exercise.

    So mechanistically, there is every indication that doses of antioxidants higher than what one would consume in food would have a negative impact on muscle adaptations to resistance training including muscle growth. We need more research before the exact circumstances in which that may or may not occur is clear.

    Here is just a list of references looking at free radicals and adaptation to exercise. I have not updated it in a long while but its a good start for those who are interested.

    M. Ristow, et al. Antioxidants prevent health-promoting effects of physical exercise in humans PNAS, May 26, 2009; 106(21): 8665 - 8670.

    S. K. Powers, et al. Reactive oxygen species are signalling molecules for skeletal muscle adaptation Exp Physiol, January 1, 2010; 95(1): 1 - 9.

    Gomez-Cabrera MC, et al. Oral administration of vitamin C decreases muscle mitochondrial biogenesis and hampers training-induced adaptations in endurance performance. Am J Clin Nutr. 2008 Jan;87(1):142-9.

    McGinley C, et al. Does antioxidant vitamin supplementation protect against muscle damage? Sports Med. 2009;39(12):1011-32.

    Jackson MJ. Free radicals generated by contracting muscle: by-products of metabolism or key regulators of muscle function? Free Radic Biol Med 2008 Jan 15; 44 (2):132-41

    Close GL, et al. The emerging role of free radicals in delayed onset muscle soreness and contraction-induced muscle injury. Comp Biochem Physiol A Mol Integr Physiol 2005 Nov; 142 (3): 257-66

    Thannickal VJ, Fanburg BL. Reactive oxygen species in cell signaling. Am J Physiol Lung Cell Mol Physiol 2000 Dec; 279 (6): L1005-28

    Gomez-Cabrera MC, et al. Moderate exercise is an antioxidant: upregulation of antioxidant genes by training. FreeRadic Biol Med 2008 Jan 15; 44 (2): 126-31

    Jackson MJ. Free radicals in skin and muscle: damaging agents or signals for adaptation? Proc Nutr Soc 1999 Aug; 58 (3): 673-6

    Ji LL, Gomez-Cabrera MC, Vin˜ a J. Exercise and hormesis: activation of cellular antioxidant signaling pathway. Ann N Y Acad Sci 2006 May; 1067: 425-35

    Tiidus, P.M. (1998). Radical species in inflammation and overtraining. Canadian Journal of Pharmacology, 76, 533–538.
     
  17. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    This is really interesting, it's almost making me think hypertrophy is something geared to prevent stress to the cells. I've always kinda thought that hypertrophy is not meant to make us stronger, it's meant to 'add more workers' so if we repeat that same level of 'work' (load, TUL, etc.) the muscles won't be as fatigued and threaten survival. Maybe oxidation is one of the trigger when fatigue from load and TUL rises and therefore a trigger or marker of the trigger for an increase in MPS. Strength would be a side effect of adding more workers (myofibrils), but not the 'reason' they were added.

    It makes sense, it seems all cellular adaptations are meant to protect the cell, lower it's stress levels etc. , even insulin resistance is meant to slow down incoming nutrients so the cell isn't 'over stuffed' with lipids, so a muscle cell using hypertrophy, to lower it's stress levels (by less fatigue since more fibrils can 'share the work') makes sense also. Antioxidants would lower the stress and make hypertrophy 'less needed'....

    Those studies look interesting, I'll look them up.
    (man I take vitamin C, fish oil, all that, some cells of our body are not happy with oxidation, I think I'd rather blunt hypertrophy than damage other cells...)
     
  18. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    The impact of antioxidants is tied closely to timing. The stimulus from exercise is acute. It is during that window (during and a short while afterwards) where the body should be left to deal with the stress on its own. So to minimize the impact of antioxidant supplements on adaptations to exercise take them 4-6 hours after the training bout.
     
  19. NWlifter

    NWlifter Active Member

    OK, I accidentally have been doing about that, I take them before bed so about 5 hours after training.
     
  20. mickc1965

    mickc1965 Well-Known Member

    Oops I take Fish Oil, Multi Vitamins and Glucosamine HCL with MSM just before my evening session, will change to taking them at lunchtime which will be 5-6 hours after AM session and 5-6 hours before PM session
     

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