And old, new approach to HST

Quad what you may prefer better or as an alternative.

Is Day 1

15's

Day 2

10's

day 3

5's

Run a 4 week cycle starting at 70 to 75% of your maxes and increasing each week.

Plus you could play with volume....a little bit on the 10 days.

I like this b/c it gives me a Light, Medium and heavy day.

And all I do is make sure I start at around 70% of my max and increase each week. Working up to around 90% once I am at that high of percentage of weight I don't go for 100 % instead I stay at that weight and increase the reps.

Just a thought.

Something to do for a change and keep it mixed up and fun!
 
Quad what you may prefer better or as an alternative.

Is Day 1

15's

Day 2

10's

day 3

5's

Run a 4 week cycle starting at 70 to 75% of your maxes and increasing each week.

Plus you could play with volume....a little bit on the 10 days.

I like this b/c it gives me a Light, Medium and heavy day.

And all I do is make sure I start at around 70% of my max and increase each week. Working up to around 90% once I am at that high of percentage of weight I don't go for 100 % instead I stay at that weight and increase the reps.

Just a thought.

Something to do for a change and keep it mixed up and fun!
 
This is really ironic, I haven't logged in here in a LOOOOOOONG time, and this is one of the first threads I see when I did today......

I started doing this exact same thing recently due to the need for a change, and after my first cycle like this, I think it is how I will train from now on. After 26 cycles of straight linear HST, I am as big as I want to be for the most part. This approach seems to give me gains in strength as well as conditioning and size. Plus, my joints felt great after the 9 week cycle I did.

I've just started my second cycle like this, and this time, I'm working closer to maxes starting out and I'm going to see how long I can milk this one for.

I do 15's 10's and 5's

2 sets of 15's

2-3 sets of 10's

3-4 sets of 5s
 
Wow! How cool is that! Welcome back SteveM (have to diferentiate you from our other Steve).
Joe's version has been proven and is possibly what I may try next, but for the reasons I stated in my first post about it am planning this. I can't speak for my idea as it's unproven, but I see it as an extreme to the other side of Joe's cycle. His would be between mine and the vanilla HST; all of them still HST.
I see it as bringing up the three rep ranges simultaneously, and therefore the benefits of each. It also has the advantage of being sort of a pyramid, except unlike a failure pyramid, this one is HST progressive. No one has spoken yet so I see no downside to it except for the challenge of all 3 on MAX DAY!
 
26 cycles? whoa!
thats like 52 months of HST?
more than 4 years, you must have a very good experience with this program :)
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Feb. 22 2007,13:10)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Wow! How cool is that! Welcome back SteveM (have to diferentiate you from our other Steve).
Joe's version has been proven and is possibly what I may try next, but for the reasons I stated in my first post about it am planning this. I can't speak for my idea as it's unproven, but I see it as an extreme to the other side of Joe's cycle. His would be between mine and the vanilla HST; all of them still HST.
I see it as bringing up the three rep ranges simultaneously, and therefore the benefits of each. It also has the advantage of being sort of a pyramid, except unlike a failure pyramid, this one is HST progressive. No one has spoken yet so I see no downside to it except for the challenge of all 3 on MAX DAY!</div>
Thanks.

I really liked the way my joints felt after the cycle. I think the benefit of doing high rep work all the way through helped immensely. My strength gains had been stalled for some time doing the linear only approach, but this time around, I actually added weight in all 3 rep ranges. Not a crazy amount, but more than I would have otherwise.

LOL, I actually did 3 weeks of max days, and I hope to do 4 weeks of them this time around. I'm probably looking for trouble, but only time will tell.
 
<div>
(Sniggel @ Feb. 22 2007,13:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">26 cycles? whoa!
thats like 52 months of HST?
more than 4 years, you must have a very good experience with this program :)</div>
It was just about 5 years of it. Little tweaks here and there along the way, but mostly the same thing. I needed a change after that long I think.
 
<div>
(Steve McDermott @ Feb. 22 2007,13:26)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Sniggel @ Feb. 22 2007,13:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">26 cycles? whoa!
thats like 52 months of HST?
more than 4 years, you must have a very good experience with this program :)</div>
It was just about 5 years of it. Little tweaks here and there along the way, but mostly the same thing. I needed a change after that long I think.</div>
Did you ever try anything out of the SST area?
 
Quad you may want to look at this routine

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=508031

I have used it with good results. Its fun a little higher volume at times but still fun.

Waterbury is not to popular around HST or Lyles forum. I am not real sure why...I just know that sometimes he screws up his references to science to back up his routines...(or so thats what Lyles forum says)

Personally I could give a sh-it less if he is gifted in science or not....the routine in my expierence works well.

Its worth a look worst case scenario.
biggrin.gif
 
Yes, it is like the routines you guys set up for HST, but the difference no one seems to have noticed is that my idea has you doing all three rep ranges every workout.

That's three sets a week for healing and mitochondria (15 rep),
three sets a week for general conditioning and strengths (10 rep),
three sets a week for strength (5 rep).
The added bonus I see here is that I've always liked the groove of a pyramid - using lighter weights at first, getting everything in line with your form, and adding weight.
One thing Chad mentioned was to mix up the exersizes; not to start with the same one every workout. I'm bad about that and need to correct it, except for not starting with deads.
I guess I'm sort of waiting for someone to show me a downside to it, but unless someone else has done it themselves, we really won't know.
Oh, BTW, Chads' cycle looked really good.
 
Why mix the order of exercises each workout? Once you find what works best for you, why would you switch the order? Obviously doing bench, pullups and curls before you deadlift is going to compromise your deadlift, so why would you mix up the order? I just don't see what benefit that would have for strength or hypertrophy. Maybe to ease boredom or monotony, but that's about it.

I also do not think he is correct in saying that workouts must be kept as brief as possible. Why? We have talked about this in the past - there is little benefit in reducing rest between sets and the whole thing about how workouts that are more than an hour long will make you lose muscle has been debunked a while back.

I wish I had known that you can't do rows for more than two weeks at a time. God, if someone had told me that years ago... I guess that's why I have, like, no mass in my back. Hah. More of that &quot;u gotta mix it up every couple weeks bro, to confuse the body and shock ur muscles into growing&quot; type of argument.

But overall... not a bad workout, better than most of the crap out there I suppose. I'd probably go with something closer to what mikeynov posted in the beginning though. Or something by Starr, whom Waterbury **** on in the beginning of the article - funny considering the massive amount of people who have gotten big and strong off of Starr's advice compared to Waterbury's...
 
He said: &quot;Constantly rotate exercises from each category. In other words, don’t always start your session with a chest/back pairing. You must keep rotating the body parts and exercises you begin each session with. &quot;

I've read from others about this and I think I recall some convo on it in this website. As best I recall, it's so that you use each exersize when you're fresh, rather than always doing it in a partially fatigued state. Still, how bad can it be in 50-80 minutes?
And we all know how long to work out that works for us. I go over an hour and always have.
Having read some of the Waterbury articles, I think he's a pretty acknowledged BB'er/trainer, but not perfect like the rest of us.
wink.gif

Hey Tot, what do YOU think of my idea?
 
Well a couple of things I look at.

If you are wanting a bigger bench then well bench press. But if you are wanting bigger pecs then hitting them from slightly different angles probabley is a good thing.

I don't think science backs the above statement up.

I think its probably fine to do nothing but bench press.

However most people like to try some different angles. (We all can get to the same place in the monatary postition with the wife or girlfriend) but its the different angles that makes it more fun!

Also some people tend do be deltoid and tricep dominant in the bench so maybe changing the exercise might benefit you some. Might not?

For the sake of load and neural learning I wouldn't go to crazy on exercise selection though.

Im not really sure why Chad routines are not to popular....mabye everyone knows something I don't? But I think his fundamentals behind his program are concrete from what I understand.

For example he has most of his clients start around 70 to 80 % of there max, but he doesn't got to failure.

His reps are a little high for HST but that doesn't hurt anything IMO, unless of course it compromises frequency.

Quad I to like the idea of doing a pyramid...and as long as you are increasing the weight and loading the muscle frequently you will be ok.

Let us know how it works for you!
 
<div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Feb. 26 2007,03:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Waterbury is not to popular around HST or Lyles forum. I am not real sure why...I just know that sometimes he screws up his references to science to back up his routines...(or so thats what Lyles forum says)

Personally I could give a sh-it less if he is gifted in science or not....the routine in my expierence works well.

Its worth a look worst case scenario.
biggrin.gif
</div>
because 99.99% of whatever comes out of his mouth is pure garbage created to try and get people into a thread, and make biotest and him Money.

Which is all perfectly fine, but it dilutes any good work he mayever produce with copious quantities of pathetic garbage.
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Feb. 25 2007,18:56)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hey Tot, what do YOU think of my idea?</div>
I would be a bit concerned on max day that doing your 15 rep max, followed by 10 rep max, might compromise your ability to pump out your 5 rep max. Maybe not though? You could always reverse it. Do 5 rm, 10 rm, then 15 rm instead of the other way around. Or do 10s first as a sort of warm up, then 5s for the heavy work and 15s afterwards to get a burn.
When are you going to start this? I'd be interested to see how it works out. Are you going to be on a bulking, cutting or maintenance diet?
 
Wow, good response Tot. And I think you've solved the problem I mentioned about the max day. I was even considering spreading the max day out somehow, but I like your ideas better.
As for diet, I'm not sure. I'm not wanting to get much fatter, but I don't really believe in cutting with high reps. I guess you could go either way on this program, since it's ALL ranges. I'm thinking it would be best for bulking. I might get some fat off before doing it. I'm the King of maintenance - I do that without thinking!
 
<div>
(Aaron_F @ Feb. 25 2007,19:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Feb. 26 2007,03:45)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Waterbury is not to popular around HST or Lyles forum. I am not real sure why...I just know that sometimes he screws up his references to science to back up his routines...(or so thats what Lyles forum says)

Personally I could give a sh-it less if he is gifted in science or not....the routine in my expierence works well.

Its worth a look worst case scenario.
biggrin.gif
</div>
because 99.99% of whatever comes out of his mouth is pure garbage created to try and get people into a thread, and make biotest and him Money.

Which is all perfectly fine, but it dilutes any good work he mayever produce with copious quantities of pathetic garbage.</div>
This is true.

Im not sure what he has or hasn't said that is garbage I will take your word on that one...however any good that comes from that website or trainer is ruined by TC and Biotest.

Its rediculous how the whore out there trainers and experts.

Im all for good marketing...but I have tried on numerous occasions to post over there and they will not let me post b/c I don't agree with there website or articles.

For example Georges St Piere who is a phenomal athlete and fighter....basically looked like there product pushing clown in one there articles.
 
The Biotest products that I have tried,other than Myostat, seemed to work pretty well. Myostat was a fraud. Tribex, Mag10 and Alpha Male seemed to be the real deal.

I do dislike the way they whore up the articles with merchandising. Most of TC's articles are not worth reading, except for Merry Christmas Bob. I follow Waterbury's idea of doing all the rep ranges in one week and think it is great. I don't know about doing them all in the same day though.
 
Neither do I, O&amp;G.
Yet I cannot discount some of the farm hands I've known, who'd get up early, do chores, eat, then do stuff like bucking hay all day (high rep, long workouts) and do the occasional wrestling match with a tractor tire or such (low rep, high load) and you'd swear some of these guys worked out...and you darn sure didn't want to get in a wrestling match with one of 'em...hard to wear 'em out!
As I've intimated, no one seems to have come up with it and tried it either, and I'd bet it works differently on different guys, depending on wether or not they're bulking or cutting. Of course the weights would still follow the HST principles.
P.S. - I could give you my leftover Tribex crap. If Trib worked, wouldn't it be most noticable on us guys with lower hormones?
 
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