Bryan's Green Tea Opinion... Flawed IMO

ex_banana-eater

New Member
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Green tea has compounds that block COMT. I stopped using as much green tea when I found that they were anti-androgenic. They not only block androgen at the receptor, thay also apear to downregulate androgen receptors.
Green tea is basically an anti-endocrine factor. It seems to reduce the effects of all steroid hormones. I don't mean to freak anybody out, it's just that the flavones (especially epigallocatechin gallate) are well known to reduce the actions of endogenous androgens (and estrogens) as well as even lowering testosterone levels themselves.
Anyway, my point is that, you may never see any significant effect of drinking green tea on muscle gains. Then again, we know that it is having an antagonistic effect, however small, in a direction oposite to what we want with respect to testosterone.
Cultures that consume a lot of green tea of also known to have fewer androgenic "manifestations" both normal (body hair, muscle mass, etc) as well as fewer pathologic manifestations (prostate problems, and other cancers associated with steroid hormones).
He must be referring to this study done in rats:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Endocrinology 2000 Mar;141(3):980-7 Related Articles, Links
Modulation of endocrine systems and food intake by green tea epigallocatechin gallate.
Kao YH, Hiipakka RA, Liao S.
Ben May Institute for Cancer Research, Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, and Tang Center for Herbal Medicine Research, University of Chicago, Illinois 60637, USA.
Green tea polyphenols, especially the catechin, (-)-epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG), have been proposed as a cancer chemopreventative based on a variety of laboratory studies. For clear assessment of the possible physiological effects of green tea consumption, we injected pure green tea catechins ip into rats and studied their acute effects on endocrine systems. We found that EGCG, but not related catechins, significantly reduced food intake; body weight; blood levels of testosterone, estradiol, leptin, insulin, insulin-like growth factor I, LH, glucose, cholesterol, and triglyceride; as well as growth of the prostate, uterus, and ovary. Similar effects were observed in lean and obese male Zucker rats, suggesting that the effect of EGCG was independent of an intact leptin receptor. EGCG may interact specifically with a component of a leptin-independent appetite control pathway. Endocrine changes induced by parenteral administration of EGCG may relate to the observed growth inhibition and regression of human prostate and breast tumors in athymic mice treated with EGCG as well as play a role in the mechanism by which EGCG inhibits cancer initiation and promotion in various animal models of cancer.
"Significantly reduced food intake, bodyweight". Those are the reasons why Green Tea lowered the hormones. The full study entails the massive injections given to the rats. Rats respond very well to FAS inhibitors, and that is most likely why their food intake went down, and the cause of the drop in leptin and sex hormones.

BTW Characterizing the Asian race.. good one.
 
ex_banana-eater said,
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] "Significantly reduced food intake, bodyweight". Those are the reasons why Green Tea lowered the hormones.

You are right that reducing caloric intake or drastically altering macronutrient ratios in the diet can effect hormone levels.

However, my comments on the effects of green tea on androgen activity were based on a wider aray of research on the subject.

1) Hiipakka RA, Zhang HZ, Dai W, Dai Q, Liao S. Structure-activity relationships for inhibition of human 5alpha-reductases by polyphenols. Biochem Pharmacol. 2002 Mar 15;63(6):1165-76.

“Since some of these compounds [EGCG and others] are consumed as part of the normal diet or in supplements, they have the potential to inhibit 5 alpha-reductase activity, which may be useful for the prevention or treatment of androgen-dependent disorders. However, these compounds also may adversely affect male sexual differentiation.”


2) Liao S. The medicinal action of androgens and green tea epigallocatechin gallate. Hong Kong Med J. 2001 Dec;7(4):369-74.

“It is now clear that a specific green tea catechin, (-)epigallocatechin-3-gallate, can modulate the production and biological actions of androgens and other hormones.
Modulation of androgenic activity and administration of (-)epigallocatechin-3-gallate may be useful for the treatment of various hormone-related abnormalities, such as benign prostatic hyperplasia, baldness, and acne, as well as androgen-dependent and -independent prostate cancers.”


3) Ren F, Zhang S, Mitchell SH, Butler R, Young CY. Tea polyphenols down-regulate the expression of the androgen receptor in LNCaP prostate cancer cells. Oncogene. 2000 Apr 6;19(15):1924-32.

“In conclusion, we have described a new property of tea polyphenols that inhibits
androgen action by repressing the transcription of the androgen receptor gene.”


4) Liao S, Hiipakka RA. Selective inhibition of steroid 5 alpha-reductase isozymes by tea
epicatechin-3-gallate and epigallocatechin-3-gallate. Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1995 Sep 25;214(3):833-8.


“(-)Epigallocatechin-3-gallate also inhibits accessory sex gland growth in the rat. These results suggest that certain tea gallates can regulate androgen action in target organs.”



And from the study you referred to…
5) Kao YH, Hiipakka RA, Liao S Modulation of endocrine systems and food intake by green tea epigallocatechin gallate. Endocrinology. 2000 Mar;141(3):980-7.

“The effect of EGCG on the weight of male accessory sexual organs was due to lowered circulating levels of testosterone. This conclusion is supported by the following observations. 1) Androgens such as TP and DHTP blocked the effect of EGCG on the weight of accessory sexual organs, including prostates. 2) EGCG did not reduce prostate weight in androgen-supplemented castrated Sprague Dawley rats (our unpublished observations). 3) EGCG-induced weight loss of prostate and other androgen-sensitive organs was accompanied by an EGCG-induced lowering of serum testosterone.”

Continuing…

Also, by lowering plasma levels of sex steroids and other endocrine factors, such as IGF-I, long term use of EGCG or green tea may be effective in the prevention and suppression of the growth of hormone-dependent and -independent prostate and breast cancer (14, 34, 35). This may relate to the low occurrence of breast and prostate cancer metastasis and mortality in some Asian countries (14, 36) where green tea is consumed regularly. Despite many potential benefits of green tea and EGCG consumption, it is also important to evaluate undesirable health-related consequences that may arise from EGCG- induced reductions in the levels of sex steroid hormones and other endocrine factors.


ex_banana-eater said,
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] BTW Characterizing the Asian race.. good one.

It is difficult to know for sure the meaning behind this comment. From the tone it sounds as if you feel my comments about cultures who consume a lot of green tea and the different physical characteristics they might exhibit as racist. I feel the idea that diet may effect physical developement and disease rates is a reasonable hypothesis and is in line with epidemiological perspectives on hormone related disease rates as it relates to diet, including the study you referenced, and I quote, "Also, by lowering plasma levels of sex steroids and other endocrine factors, such as IGF-I, long term use of EGCG or green tea may be effective in the prevention and suppression of the growth of hormone-dependent and -independent prostate and breast cancer (14, 34, 35). This may relate to the low occurrence of breast and prostate cancer metastasis and mortality in some Asian countries (14, 36) where green tea is consumed regularly.". Niether mine, nor the comments of these researchers has anything to do with socio/political racism, nevertheless, I apologize to anyone who, being unfamiliar with epidemiological perspectives on culture and physiology, might have misinterpreted it.
 
Thank you for the discussion and studies. BTW Perhaps if you thought I came across as rude, I wasn't trying to, although it looks like it in retrospect.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ex_banana-eater @ June 25 2003,5:48)]Thank you for the discussion and studies. BTW Perhaps if you thought I came across as rude, I wasn't trying to, although it looks like it in retrospect.
thumbs-up.gif
:)
 
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