Bulking - Cutting useless...

Out of curiosity, and in line with the topic of this thread, what are your/your dietitians take on bulking and cutting? Did you make gains by staying at a maintenance level and shifting macro nutrients , or did she put you on a hyper caloric diet with more carbs as well?
 
Hello again. My dietitian does promote bulking cycles. I guess you could say macro-nutrients are shifted because the additional calories are mostly from carbohydrates when bulking. Protein increases too, but not nearly to the same extent. Timing seems to be quite important for energy balance, etc for her recommendations.

I will let you know how the "bulking" cycle works that is recommended by my dietitian.

So BeingisBeing, are you currently doing the HST program? How are you finding it? Also what are you modifying when cutting/bulking as far as your training?
 
I started working out in January after a hiatus of a few yrs. I began with HST in April actually, but I've been lurking on this site for a while. I'm really liking it.
Never, ever been able to get a response out of my shoulders for example, with thousands of sets and whacky splits, and presto, HST has done it with 1-2 exercises, 3X a week. Same goes for my lats, for example. Interestingly enough though, my biceps and triceps, which have usually quickly bulked up, are seeming to lag.
I started pretty damn overweight, 5'10" 215 lbs, and by focusing on composition of my diet/supplements and lots of exercise, was quickly able to get down to 182ish now. So the thing with bulking/cutting is, I've never really counted calories with great precision (just approximations), and now that I've come to a 'healthy' weight, I feel that I'm going to have to start if I want to get anywhere.
In other words, I think I've exhausted the newbie magic of losing fat and gaining muscle by simply getting my unconditioned backside to the gym, and now its time to get more precise if I plan on progressing.
So I decided to give UD2.0 a chance, as a bulk. But then I doubt this decision and wonder if I shouldn't just continue until the weight loss totally stops? I dunno! How about you?
 
The UD2.0 would not be a bad idea for a bulk as I imagine it would limit fat gain when eating addional calories. Again it all depends on how you respond to keto diets.

I have tried a few over the years, starting with Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale's Anabolic diet, which is a basic CKD, then I tried Dan Duchaine's Body Opus, then Infinity fitness constant Keto diet, and UD2.0.

Some keto diets suggest weekend carb load while other suggest constant ketosis and after doing it long enough you can have a hit of high-glycemic carbs post workout. Depends on what works for you, but I would suggest the weekend carb load (CKD) diets as the insulin and "glycogen-supercompensation" help with mass building. HST works out well as you do a total body workout prior to the weekend carb load which is required on these diets. UD2.0 is fuzzy to me as far as the details for some reason, but I remember it being the best. I would do your workout late Friday, then begin your carb load with high-glycemic carbs and protein drinks and taper the carbs to more complex carbs as the weekend progresses.

I found that you can't go all the way to sunday night as you really start smoothing out. Usually you have to stop early Sunday morning when you see yourself starting to bloat too much.

As far as HST goes it has worked for me as well. I have a naturally big chest and thighs, but small shoulders and arms. I noticed that these smaller muscles responded better to higher frequency and began looking for a program that gave some good advice then I stumbled on HST. It's definitely helping, but I add a few more exercises for arms and shoulders than suggested. Maybe I shouldn't be doing that, but I have to ask around more.
 
Yeah UD2.0 made the most sense to me as far as workout placement and what not. I'd rather not resort to an extreme like this at this stage of the game, but I'm seeing what I think is muscle loss when I try to diet down "normally" further, and I'm paranoid of getting fat on a "traditional bulk"
So I'm on week two, we'll see what happens. Do you have a targeted program at the moment, a bulk or a cut in other words?
 
Well I am concluding a "cut" routine as I think it is time to add some more meat on my bones. I think I actually put on some muscle using HST despite the fact that I am cutting. I haven't been completely disciplined in my cutting as I rarely monitor calories on weekend and drink too
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I eat clean on weekends though.

Anyways, my cutting program for food is:

Breakfast

1C cooked oatmeal
2 Whole Eggs
1C Milk

Snack 1
1 banana


Lunch
1 Potato, or 2 sl bread (60% whole wheat for lower calories)
1 fruit
3oz meat
2 tbsp oil (or less)
veggies

Snack 2
1 sl bread
1oz meat
1/2 piece fruit

Dinner (usually I don't measure that well)
2/3C rice
4oz meat
1 piece fruit
1C milk
2 tbsp oil
<u>
Snack 3 (optional)</u>
30g grains (whatever it is)
1/2 fruit
2/3C cottage cheese

Post Workout
1C Chocolate milk (yes that is all)

Bulking

Diet is similar except:
- Snack 1 is as big as Snack 2 on training days
- Drink carb. drink during workout (i.e. gatorade)
- Additional grains at lunch and dinner
- Additional protein at lunch.
 
Hmmmm......I am already getting bored of my current program as I have ADD
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I have been looking into the whole &quot;too much protein thing&quot; since my dietician dropped the bomb on me about athletes are getting too much. So I started taking to competitive bodybuilders and their thoughts as they are the best-of-the-best. Some really know their stuff as I was surprised to find as I thought they were just being trained by someone else.

Anyway the first thing that they asked me is &quot;Is you dietitian an atheltics dietitian or a bodybuilding dietitian?&quot; I guess in the world of athletics the dietitian I spoke with is very wise, but in the bodybuilding world the rules somewhat different and no one knows the exact answer as everyone is different.

So just to be on the safe side I will go back to a higher protein level, so let my previous posts be thought-provoking (as they were intended) but not as advice on how much protein to consume.
 
That's your bulk, Colby? Where's the P-budder, quarts of milk, Wendy's Triple burgers and all that?
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I'd cut nicely on his diet.
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Jun. 19 2008,10:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That's your bulk, Colby? Where's the P-budder, quarts of milk, Wendy's Triple burgers and all that?
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I'd cut nicely on his diet.</div>
yeah seriously haha
 
<div>
(quadancer @ Jun. 19 2008,10:33)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">That's your bulk, Colby? Where's the P-budder, quarts of milk, Wendy's Triple burgers and all that?
laugh.gif
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I'd cut nicely on his diet.</div>
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Breakfast

1C cooked oatmeal = 170
2 Whole Eggs = 180
1C Milk = 90

Snack 1
1 banana = 110


Lunch
1 Potato, or 2 sl bread (60% whole wheat for lower calories) = 140
1 fruit = 100
3oz meat = 180
2 tbsp oil (or less) = 240
veggies

Snack 2
1 sl bread = 70
1oz meat = 60
1/2 piece fruit = 50

Dinner (usually I don't measure that well)
2/3C rice = 140
4oz meat = 240
1 piece fruit = 100
1C milk = 90
2 tbsp oil = 240

Snack 3 (optional)
30g grains (whatever it is) = 30
1/2 fruit = 50
2/3C cottage cheese = 100

Post Workout
1C Chocolate milk (yes that is all) = 160</div>

Okay, I averaged an ounce of meat to be 60 calories (chicken on the lighter side, beef on the heavier side)... I considered 1% dairy, 100 calories for a piece of fruit, 1 tbsp of Oil (EVOO) to be 120 calories, and the rest you can figure out...

2360 calories without snack
2540 calories with snack

Okay, maybe that isn't a bulk... Those calories are just over maintenance for me without any exercise.

It just seemed like a lot more when I saw the oil and fruit!
 
personally im sick of bulking and cutting. ive spent years trying to pack size on. all the while carrying a layer of fat around me which just covered the good stuff up. i could carry on bulking for years to come and finally have a body to be proud of, when im 50 lol.

i now just eat and train to grow, but add cardio in to keep lean, i want the six pack to be a permanent part of my anatomy, call me mr.vain
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I know some would say that is the absolute best way to go, though its only for the extremely patient (michael colgan, alan aragon).

then again Icars, you've paid your dues and are already pretty huuuuge
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what would a weenie like me do with that approach?
 
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(Vin_G @ May 23 2008,10:54)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Too much protein strains the kidneys and creates dehydration due to uric acid flushing. I was having severe back spasms and it was from too much protein recommended by the bodybuilding community.</div>
You have had back spasms too?
I have them and have had for quite a while since I started paying more attention to my protein intake.
I also often have problem with my water balance I guess. I drink a lot, especially during and after training, because I get thirsty. But at night I wake up to pee one or several times and I am usually thirsty at these moments too. And when morning comes I usually pee ones more and am very thirsty.
My salt intake was very low earlier (~2g/day) but that has been fixed now but it hasnt affected my spasms or my peeing/thirsty problem.
 
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(Blizz @ Sep. 16 2007,11:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hello guys...

As the topic says, I really think that the bulking and cutting cycles aren't necessary to achieve your goals. What I am talking about is by going way over your calorie needs for bulking and the need to cut after, that just doesn't make sense IMO.

If you gain more fat during a bulk session it's just because your body did get all he needs for muscle recovery and growth, the rest is store as fat. So the latter implies that you did consume too much calories than you needed and you're getting fat wich implies a cutting cycle to loose the excess fat.

Why not increase the calorie intake just to allow muscle growth without storing body fat and at the same time not have to do a cutting cycle ?

Just my tought.

Blizz</div>
That would work. Probably. If it actually worked that way. But it doesn't. So it won't.

Protein, fat, vitamins and minerals is what we build muscle with. Carbohydrates serve no function here. Increasing or reducing carbohydrates would not increase or reduce muscle building potential directly. What it would do however is increase or reduce fat storing potential. Once we know this, bulking and cutting in the classical sense disappears.
 
i'm pretty sure having too much protein doesn't result in kidney problems, that was flipped around and exaggerated after it was found that people with PRE-EXISTING kidney problems shouldn't ingest too much protein, but it got turned around to say that taking in too much protein causes kidney problems as i far as i know...

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Protein, fat, vitamins and minerals is what we build muscle with. Carbohydrates serve no function here. Increasing or reducing carbohydrates would not increase or reduce muscle building potential directly. What it would do however is increase or reduce fat storing potential. Once we know this, bulking and cutting in the classical sense disappears. </div>

Martin, have you read the FAQ? if so, do you disagree with alot of what Bryan says (in relation to bulking parameters (have more carbs than protein), the U-shaped bell curve etc)?
i'm just curious.
 
Beingisbeing, interesting signature you have there. Force is equal to change in momentum with respect to time which is obviously equal to change in velocity over time (acceleration) times mass. It's not that I do not know these simple equations, but I just wanted to point out that I am someone who appreciates applied mathematics.
 
<div>
(_Simon_ @ Jun. 25 2008,8:28)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">i'm pretty sure having too much protein doesn't result in kidney problems, that was flipped around and exaggerated after it was found that people with PRE-EXISTING kidney problems shouldn't ingest too much protein, but it got turned around to say that taking in too much protein causes kidney problems as i far as i know...

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Protein, fat, vitamins and minerals is what we build muscle with. Carbohydrates serve no function here. Increasing or reducing carbohydrates would not increase or reduce muscle building potential directly. What it would do however is increase or reduce fat storing potential. Once we know this, bulking and cutting in the classical sense disappears. </div>

Martin, have you read the FAQ? if so, do you disagree with alot of what Bryan says (in relation to bulking parameters (have more carbs than protein), the U-shaped bell curve etc)?
i'm just curious.</div>
I advise against carbs in any event so anything that's been said about carbs being good, I disagree with. I don't need carbs to build muscles, do you? If you do, where do those carbs fit in after fat, protein, vitamins and minerals have been accounted for? I don't know what carbs are good for but I know what they're bad for and they're bad for a whole lot of things.

As for excess protein, it's not bad in itself. But, combine it with low fat and we get problems. I've read of something called the rabbit disease which incidentally was caused by eating exclusively rabbit meat. Rabbit meat is very lean. On the other hand, high fat and low protein causes no problem to speak of.
 
I take it you mean &quot;rabbit starvation syndrome&quot;

Something theorized to be caused by hyperaminoacidemia, but with little evidence to support this.  Symptoms also matched a heap of other things, including food poisoning.  It would be great to have something better than repeated reports from an observer in the 1920.

There was some clinical work done back in the early 70's, examining maximum urea synthesis rates, but unfortunately they did not perform any adaptation work to examine what happened over time, as the maximum level of protein intake to top out urea synthesis was not high, and well below what would be commonly consumed in the context of bbing.
 
<div>
(colby2152 @ Jun. 25 2008,9:10)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Beingisbeing, interesting signature you have there. Force is equal to change in momentum with respect to time which is obviously equal to change in velocity over time (acceleration) times mass. It's not that I do not know these simple equations, but I just wanted to point out that I am someone who appreciates applied mathematics.</div>
I think Newton on every concentric rep...
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Physics persuaded me to switch to barbell curls from DBs. I liked the idea of Torque increasing due to the greater distance R of the weight(force) from the axis of rotation.

Then when I do chins I think about the NY Giants smacking the Patriots in the super bowl...hahaha
 
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