Cheap training

[Minime]

Oookay. Back to university after a long summer of heavy work, bad nutrition and only having access to gym equipment sporadically, it's now time to get back on track. Oh boy have I been longing!

I have faithfully followed all the dieting threads that's been going on for some time, mainly fueled by nkl. Even though I've lost some bf over summer, as intended (unfortunately along with a significant amount of muscle, as I always do very rapidly whenever i don't train and eat like a maniac) I've decided not to go on an all-out-bulk this time around. Instead I'm gonna try for a truncated ABCDE-type cycle, 1week bulk, 1week cut. On the bulk weeks I also intend to increase frequency to 6x/week, and on the cut-weeks I'll add a little light cardio every morning.

My stats when beginning:
67.1kg bw (147.5) (after the end of last cycle, 73,5kg or 161,5lbs)
11.1% bf (after the end of last cycle, 15.4%)

BF measured in the morning using a bioelectric impedance thingy, so might not be the most reliable method, but it gives a hint as to wether I'm going in the right direction or not.

My diet will be 3400kcal on bulkweeks, 1800kcal on cutweeks (is this reasonable?) with a calculated maintenance at 2400kcal. I'll also do some proteincycling, drastically cutting protein the last three days of the cutweek. I'm pondering over whether it's better to have the low protein-days during the bulk-week, since the idea of both having an amino acid-defiency and an energy-deficit doesn't really sound like an ideal combination for a full three days. Any input on that?

Oh and about the title... Almost all the money I earned this summer has already been invested into various things (such as literature for school, a new camera, a new external sound card so that I can finally start recording some of my songs  

 and so forth), so I'll be on a very restrained budget this semester, and considering the, for some groceries, drastically rising food-prices... Let's just say it's gonna be tough. So let this be an experiment in surviving AND getting "mean and lean" on marginal resources!

Wish me luck!  

Cheers, Minime

 

[Wildman]

It is always so good to get back into it after a layoff. The excitement and motivation is almost as high as the optimism. Welcome back to training.

Sorry about the weight loss man. That is the harsh reality though. Use it or lose it so they say. I am sure you will bounce back even bigger and better than before.

I try and stay a 1000 cals above maintenance for my bulk as well. Some say that 500 is enough to get the job done. I have tried that and felt very low on energy.

Hopefully nkl or one of the guys more advanced in diet knowledge will post up some advise for you. I got nothing much to offer there, sorry to say. I have always kept it very simple but am studying about it now in preparation for a cut in the Spring. As an ex-powerlifter I never really cared about the look before. Now I am going to try and cut down a little at least.

I do have one tidbit that might be of use. Powdered milk as a substitute for whey. It is a good source of protein and costs a third as much as whey. If the budget says no whey to whey, then maybe you can afford a big box of powdered milk instead.

Muscle tends to come back faster the second time around for some reason. I am sure you will be back to your 161 very soon.

Good luck fella!

 

[Minime]

<div>
(Wildman @ Sep. 08 2008,8:49)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">It is always so good to get back into it after a layoff. The excitement and motivation is almost as high as the optimism. Welcome back to training.</div>
Thanks! You're right, motivation is at an all-time-high. A few days left 'til the first workout... Can't wait.

 

[nkl]

I experienced roughly the same during summer - lost mass and some inches of my waist.

Despite my interest in the ABCDE diet, from what I have heard on the bodyrecomp forum over at Lyle's they do not se kindly on that particular one - I know why. It's just too much surplus. Anecdotally most who tried it got fat. As you've seen in my log, even a EOD approach will have you gain fat if you add too much. So keep the surplus even lower on a 1w/1w scheme.

The rationale behind all of this is that once you have filled your glycogen storage up, you can add just a little before it is filled again. Despite a fast adaptation of glucose oxidation to match your intake, it will not empty your stores fast enough. Those who have endured UD2.0 know what it takes to deplete glucogen stores. So, what does happen if we defianty shove those excess carbs in? You've probably guessed it - DNL. That and all the fat you get from your meals are stored for later use - roughly 45 g/d of fat gets oxidized when overfeeding. So several days with a high carb intake will lead to fatness, unless close to maintenance. That is sad (bad), because carbs and fat are cheap energy.

How about protein? That is another matter. At the current pricing protein is expensive, but you can get what you need - eggs, tuna, and milk are products that are relatively cheap. For every gram extra you can get, you can add those precious to your LBM. Protein oxidation is roughly 90 g/d, and is relatively stable around that number (of course it depends on your size). At a daily intake of 300 grams+ you spend roughly 25% in TEM (protein synthsesis, transport, etc.), some lost in oxidation, and you end up with 100-150+ grams to add to your own. However, long stretches of low fat, high protein will kill your testosterone, so try cycling fats and carbs if you can. Keep protein high around your bulking week, as Torbjorn Akerfelt recommended, and then drop it gradually, but not below 100-110 g/d.

I'm not sure protein oxidation is that great a problem. I checked the referernces Torbjorn used in the article on ABCDE at MuscleNow, and it turned out that the experiment was performed on rats, whose life's runs at a quicker pace than ours. From other feeding studies (on humans) protein oxidation level hardly budged from baseline (only by some 10 g/d one or the other way).

Do try your 1w/1w scheme. I think your numbers are reasonable (considering the energy lost in TEM). Surplus might be a little high. The distribution of macros count. Keep track of calories in and your weight and you'll notice what way it is heading. Good luck!  

 

[Minime]

Wow, that's a really elaborate response nkl. Thank you very much! The surplus of ~1000kcal is what I generally get on an all-out bulk as well. The macro's would be approx. 200g/protein, 400g/carbs, 115g/fat (20/50/30%). One solution could be to cycle carbs/fats during those weeks, every other day, to avoid DNL. It seems like a fairly simple and effective solution.

I'll cut the 3400 down a few hundred more calories if my waist thickens too fast. As for cycling protein I was planning to cut it even lower than 100g/day, but I will follow your suggestion not to. The substituting calories will then come mainly from fats. I will also try keeping carbs low in general on the cutting-weeks. I COULD actually walk over and ask Torbjörn Åkerfeldt himself what he thinks, he still works at the Department of Medical Sciences at Uppsala University where I'm also a student.  

 (Not at his specific department, but anyway).

About pricing;  I have a 4-kg sack of whey since last semester, which will surely come in a handy. Tuna isn't really that cheap anymore. Where I shop a can (160g I think) goes for 16:90kr (about 2:50$), unless you get the worst kind there is (salad tuna, which tastes mostly like rubber and aluminum and contains some kind of small black crunchy nuggets that taste bitter as h*ll and which I have no idea what they are). Milk is my hero, and the first entry on my shopping list. Eggs are next, and then chicken thighs at 22kr/kg (~3:50$), as for protein. Carbs and fats, well, cheap oatmeal is great, olive oil is available at a low cost too (probably with an inferior fatty acid profile since it isn't &quot;virgin&quot;, but still). Frozen broccoli and raw onions will be the main &quot;green&quot; source. And there we got it. I think I can get away with a food-budget of 1400kr (~215$) a month.

First workout on sunday!

Cheers
/Minime

 

[nkl]

Dyrt med tonfisk i Uppsala! Jag hittar dem för ca 12kr styck i Haninge (Coops eller ICAs egna märken). Euroshoppers märke är gräslig. Coops x-tra är inte så god heller.

Hälsningar,
nkl

Sorry about the swedish language, all you others.

 

[Minime]

All rightie then, time to start logging.

Going directly into 10's, to avoid having to do a cutting week on 15's (not good). First week of 10's and it's a cutweek, meaning approximately 1800kcal / day. Started taking creatine again, regular monohydrate since it's dirt cheap (before, I used Kre-Alkalyn, but can't afford it anymore).

First workout yesterday.
Deadlifts 55kg *2
Dumbbell bench press 16kg *2
Bentover Rows 35kg *2 (felt a little on the light side, even for a first workout)
OH press 25kg *2

Next workout I might do three sets.

Also, nkl's nice graphs inspired me (as a former computer nerd) to sit down and make my own little &quot;logging&quot; program, which is little more than a graph-writer that also has som builtin functions to calculate genetic potential and bodyfat percentage etc. It's been a while since I programmed, but it's coming back to me. If there is any interest I might post it here when it's finished.

Cheers,
Minime


edit: Having some serious insomia-problems at the moment, which is annoying the hell out of me. Hopefully nothing that some deadlifts can't fix.

 

[Minime]

<div>
(nkl @ Sep. 12 2008,5:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Dyrt med tonfisk i Uppsala! Jag hittar dem för ca 12kr styck i Haninge (Coops eller ICAs egna märken). Euroshoppers märke är gräslig. Coops x-tra är inte så god heller.</div>
Missade dig här. Jo, tonfisken är bra dyr. Kollade ute på Ica Maxi, samma sak där. Funderar på att slänga ut tonfisken ur matplanen och ersätta med något billigare. Får fundera över lämpliga lågprisalternativ...



For everyone else:

Another workout today:
Squat 50kg * 2 (unfortunately I have to them on a smith machine, no other proper squatting &quot;device&quot; where I train atm)
Dumbbell bench press 16kg * 2
Bent over rows 40kg * 2
OH presses 25kg * 2

And that's it. As you can see volume isn't exactly overhelming, but last cycle I did a little more, and it often left me unable to complete workouts, out of pure exhaustion. I guess I'm just not genetically pre-disposed to moving heavy stuff.  

 I also figured since I'm on a cutting week, I'd rather go for a little lower volume than on a bulk. Is that sort of right, or just idiocy?

I don't know whether it's the insomnia or the calorie-cutting speaking, but I'm feeling very low energy-wise. Probably a combination of both.

Cheers everyone,
Minime

 

[Minime]

Got a little to few kcals today. Should have been at 1800, my estimation is approx 1400. Got caught up in my studies, forgot to eat =). It's cuttingweek, but I don't want to go too low.

Still can't sleep. Tomorrow is deadlift day. I'll do some additional sets. If I really exhaust myself, perhaps it will kill my insomnia. If it doesn't get better by next week, I'm getting some sleeping pills...

 

[imported_electric]

I might have already asked you this but are you lifting close to bed time?

 

[Wildman]

Hey bud, electric is about to hit on this I think but Ill put my two cents in as well.

I train two and a half hours before bedtime so I eat and shower up in that last hour and a half of the day. I have trouble sleeping sometimes too because my furnace is on high still so to speak and my muscles are sensitive to pressure at this point still. So the pressure of lying on the bed causes me to flip about some.

I have to do stretching for the major muscles after my workout to get relief. That and I use a relaxation technique when I settle in to sleep. I focus on each major muscle and get it to relax to where is lies flat to the bed. I then concentrate on my breathing. Just the feel of the air moving in and out of my body. I dont think of other stuff just that for a few minutes. This normally does the trick for me. All that and a hot shower that is. Good luck.

 

[Minime]

<div>
(Wildman @ Sep. 19 2008,12:14)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I have to do stretching for the major muscles after my workout to get relief. That and I use a relaxation technique when I settle in to sleep. I focus on each major muscle and get it to relax to where is lies flat to the bed. I then concentrate on my breathing. Just the feel of the air moving in and out of my body. I dont think of other stuff just that for a few minutes. This normally does the trick for me. All that and a hot shower that is. Good luck.</div>
I normally workout either before (09:00-ish) or after (14:00-ish) my lectures, so pumping iron too late is probably not the problem. I'll try doing that relaxing technique you mentioned (I think I have one of those strange &quot;hypnotic relaxation tapes&quot; around somewhere, which if I remember correctly is about doing something similiar to what you're saying).

In other news... Third workout today, on schedule.

Dumbbell bench press 18.5kg*2
Bentover Rows 45kg*2
OH press 30kg*2
Deadlift 65kg*2

In that, somewhat awkward, order. It was strangely crowded at the gym today, so I had to wait 10-15 minutes between every exercise to get to the equipment, and throw the order around. Sucks. Was supposed to introduce standing calf-raises, but I just wouldn't wait another 15 minutes for the smithmachine...

Cheers,
Minime

(PS. It's friday night, and I'm staying at home to try and sleep early. Aren't I just the champion  

)

 

[Minime]

Time to summarize the week. Results as far as weight and bf:

From 67.1kg to 66.0kg
From 11.1% bf to 10.4%

I really don't have any extensive experience of cutting, so I have no idea whether these are good results. I figured -.7% in a week is quite good, but I don't know. On the other hand... The data is probably not comparable in such a specific way (considering fluid state - been lowcarbing this week), but .7% of 67.1 means about .5kg, which means that about half of the weightloss would be muscle, which would be a terrible thought.

My sleep is getting into shape, it seems. I'll postpone a visit to the pharmacy to get chemical aid. We'll see how it goes.

Cheers,
/Minime

 

[Minime]

All rightie, first day of bulking week. Started off with a 700kcal breakfast of milk, oats and a few frozen blueberries. Went to the gym about an hour later:

Squat 60kg*2
Dumbbell bench press 18.5kg*2
Bent-over row 50kg*2 (progressing a little fast weightwise here, so I'll have to stick to 50kg's a few more workouts i think)
OH press 30kg*2

Finished off with a nice big post-WO-shake with 40g of whey and 100g of maltodextrin. All this new energy makes me so warm, almost feverish, I feel like I'm about to spontaneously combust.  

 Absolutely lovely after a week of both carbrestriction and energydeficit.

Oh well, time to go shove some more oatmeal porridge down my throat.

Over and out,
/Minime

 

[Minime]

Another workout:

Leg extensions 50kg*2
Tricep pushdowns 15kg*2
Dumbbell bicep curl 10kg*2
Flyes 9kg*2
Side raises 8kg*2
Standing calf raises 60kg*2

Yes, you guessed it. The &quot;B-workout&quot; is all iso's. Since I'm going to the gym every day during bulking week, I thought I'd try a little different approach, and do all iso's on even days.

The hormonal rush from going from one week of cutting to shoving 3400kcal's a day is stunning. I've been walking around feeling like I own the world with a constant smile on my face, all day.  

 

 

   It's like I'm on some kind of happy-drug. Unfortunately it wont last forever  

Cheers guys!
/Minime

edit: I should add that I'm sleeping like a baby now. I've got a ton of work to do, a labreport to hand in by friday which is nowhere near finished, I'm well behind with the reading, plus other stuff, so I should be feeling all stressed out. Guess what - I'm not! Awesome!

 

[Minime]

Just got backfrom the gym:

Deadlift 75kg*2
Dumbbell bench press 21kg*2
Bent over row 45kg*2 (had to lower the weight slightly from last workout, probably a miscalculation of the weight progression somewhere)
OH press, still 30kg*2 (I could easily do them heavier, but somehow my spine hurts when I do. Perhaps I should consider switching them out)

That's it for today!

 

[Minime]

Almost forgot to update with todays workout:

Leg extensions 60kg*2
Tricep-pushdowns 20kg*2 (only managed seven reps on second set)
Dumbbell bicep curl 10kg*2 (had to cluster up second set)
Flyes 11kg*2
Side raises 9kg*2
Standing calve raises 75kg*2


That's it. Finally got my new camera today - money well spent!

 

[Minime]

Jeez, I feel like I'll have to postpone todays workout 'til tomorrow. I'm getting worn out from lifting every day, and my biceps are craaazy sore. Haven't decided yet. I'll have a nice big meal and rest for an hour or two and see how I feel then.


edit: Nope, no working out today.

 

[Minime]

Todays WO then (10-rm)

Squat 70kg*2
Dumbbell bench press 21kg*2
Bent over row 45kg*2 (yes, again)
OH press 30kg*2 (yes, again)

That's it. Tomorrow is last day of first bulking week, I'll scribble down a little summary then.

Cheers everyone!
/Minime

 

[nkl]

I've got a question for you. Are you doing HST 15s for 2 sets? I figured you do since you add *2 and no rep info (surely you do not use your 2RM).

And happy 100th post next time you post!