Cutting past 5s

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SweetDaddyPatty

New Member
I hope this is the right foum, and I hope this isn't a duplicate thread. I tried searching and found a few different opinions, so I'd just like anybody's feedback on this idea.

It seems to be the consensus that to maintain muscle while cutting you need to train heavy to maintain strength. Some have said to skip SD or even skip 15's and use regular hst while cutting.

I was considering cutting after my 2 weeks of post 5's where instead of negatives I usually do multiple sets of ~3 reps with my 5rm and eventually more than my 5rm. So after this 2 week period I would start to reduce calories and keep training with something like 5 sets of 3 with my new 5rm, for just Deadlift, Dumbell bench, and weighted chins. I would probably keep this up for 4-6 weeks. probably 15 minutes or so of HIIT after my weight workout.

How does this sound? Any criticisms, or recommendations?
 
I think it would work, assuming you can keep going with it and don't burn out. Are you on a bulking diet right now? If so, you'll probably want to spend at least a couple weeks at maintenance before switching to a cut.
Honestly, I would just do another HST cycle. Stay at maintenance for now, take a short week long SD if you think you need the psychological break, then start cutting calories when you begin lifting. Using your maxes from the last cycle, skip the 15s, work up to your 5 RMs and then maintain those throughout the cut. Once you are satisfied with your cut, find your new maintenance level and spend a bit of time at that before you do any bulking.
 
Cutting is hard work...but relatively simple to do. It's all calories in v. calories out.

Your lifting routine does not matter, except for the following.
-reps in the 1-6 range are best. Failure optional;
-Your exercises should be: squats, deads, bench, dips, pullups. Remember, you'll be in caloric deficit. No sense wasting precious energy by doing dumbbell curls.

Cardio is a must. Keep it low intensity so you have energy left in the tank for your lifting. Walking on an inclined treadmill for about 45 minutes 3-4 times per week will help you burn a couple pounds of fat per month.

Without proper diet, there is no 6-pack. Carbs must be limited to 100g or less per day. Simple carbs okay pre/post workout.

Have your bodyfat tested. If you're at 15% and want to get to 10%, it should take about 8 - 10 weeks.

Just remember, there are no shortcuts when it comes to cutting. The slower and more deliberately you get there, the more lbm you'll retain.
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(Slapshotz @ May 13 2007,20:42)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">....Cardio is a must...
...Carbs must be limited to 100g or less per day....</div>
I heavily disagree on these two statements. Neither is cardio a must as the only really relevant factor for getting rid of fat is a cal deficite, nor do you have to do a low carb diet by any means. I'm cutting very successfully atm with a moderate carb intake (about 250 g/day) and no cardio (which - in a moderate way like u suggest - only serves the purpose to keep the metabolic rate high, while you have a much stronger effect on your metabolism with a refeed once a week&gt;this one is crucial, not cardio)
 
ill jump in here with a few thoughts,

while i dont HEAVILY disagree with slapshotz on the cardio and carbs aspect i do think that they may/or may not be essential to ones cutting program.

i think slapz first statement sums it up pretty well. its mainly about cals in vs cals out. no need to make it complicated TO START WITH.

just like begining lifting and bulking folks would be best served concentrating on the basics and see how they respond. basic compound movements, progressive load and a cal surplus (with enough protein) is what most should be doing for the 1st 6month to a yr to establish a base. only then can you truely get a real idea if you actually do have any lagging bp (that may need iso work) what your cal requirements are, what exer you like (and dont) which ones you respond best with, how all this fits in with your lifestyle etc etc.

same with cutting. keep the wgts heavy, but managable and shoot for a modest cal deficit (again good protein intake) and see how the body responds. cardio can be used to achieve the deficit but i dont think its necces. a must. if after time your not seeing the results you want then perhaps its time to fold in addit. cardio or try some carb restriction etc etc.

personally, the carb limit and cardio is the route ive had to go in order to make progress. simply dropping the cals and little cardio made very little impact compared to when i went low carb (ckd) and really added in the cardio. the point is though that is only what i needed, many others achieve similar results without resorting to more then limiting cals and working out.

start basic and only complicate things if you need to in order to make/continue progress is how i look at it.

good luck
 
Why do cardio when lifting boosts metabolism for a much longer period of time and is more fun? When I am cutting I just cut back on the total calories and continue with pretty much the same program I am on with HST.

It really is very simple to do. The one stumbling block I see with many people is that due to cutting back the calories they don't see the gains in strength or size they normally do and start to panic. Just decide what you really want to do. Do you want to cut which is the objective or do you want to continue to grow and get stronger. It is tough to do both at once.
 
I knew my post was going to generate moderate flame throwing.

That's okay, I've seen the same flames posted elsewhere where I've posted similar sentiments...but my stance on the matter is unwavering.

My experience is, it's usually (not always, so please don't assume I'm making a blanket statement) those who need to do cardio the most are also the ones who debunk it the most.

I've seen lifters complain for years that they can't get ripped, but at the same time they refuse to do cardio because they think it somehow detracts from lifting, or that simply lifting weights and cutting calories is just as beneficial.

It's not.

Cardio done in the so-called fat burning range does indeed burn fat.  This is a fact.  The debate rages as to whether HIIT is better than static low intensity, but that's a discussion for another thread, I suppose.  The bottom line is that all of your best bodybuilding trainers recommend some variation of cardio, especially when cutting.  

As to the carb issue, again, my stance is unwavering.   Even the old-time masters of bodybuilding knew that high protein/fat and low carb diets were a major key in transforming body composition.  The fact that carb reduction is even questioned as one of the most effective means of getting ripped is just laughable to me, but heck, everyone is entitled to their opinions
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The most successful &quot;dud to stud&quot; bods I've seen built over the years were built with the cardio/low carb/heavy lifting formula.  It's not that other approaches don't have merit, but this approach has far &amp; away produced more eye popping transformations than any others.  Of course, I'm speaking of nattys.  Extended roid use changes the equation entirely.

In addition, low carb diets are amongst the toughest to stick to, and most people who complain about them cannot vouche for their efficacy because they can't stick to the diet long enough reap the benefits.  So, they try it for two weeks, go mental with carb cravings, then dive into a big bowl of Frosted Flakes and declare the low carb approach useless.

Again, my comments are not a knock at anyone, nor are they a knock on what does/does not constitute a successful cutting program, but if 6-packs were so damn easy to achieve, everyone would have them
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As to the carb issue, again, my stance is unwavering. Even the old-time masters of bodybuilding knew that high protein/fat and low carb diets were a major key in transforming body composition. The fact that carb reduction is even questioned as one of the most effective means of getting ripped is just laughable to me, but heck, everyone is entitled to their opinions </div>

wrong...not the only way to do it. As long as there is a caloric deficit, and protein is maintained, it doesn't matter much if you use a low-carb moderate fat, low-fat moderate-carb, or moderate fat + moderate carb diet.
 
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(scientific muscle @ May 15 2007,19:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> <div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">As to the carb issue, again, my stance is unwavering.   Even the old-time masters of bodybuilding knew that high protein/fat and low carb diets were a major key in transforming body composition.  The fact that carb reduction is even questioned as one of the most effective means of getting ripped is just laughable to me, but heck, everyone is entitled to their opinions  </div>

wrong...not the only way to do it.  As long as there is a caloric deficit, and protein is maintained, it doesn't matter much if you use a low-carb moderate fat, low-fat moderate-carb, or moderate fat + moderate carb diet.</div>
Sci, I'm not wrong. With all due respect, I can guarantee you, you'll be singing a much different tune when it's your turn to slay the midsection monster.
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actually I plan on doing a low-fat, low-carb, high protein diet. So the caloric deficit will be pretty high and I can shed the weight faster. Will have to keep the lifting heavy and the protein heavy to spare lean mass.
 
I do agree that cardio is helpful, however people have also been cutting with or without cardio for decades now as well.

It will be probably difficult to get significantly below 10% bodyfat without cardio for most people, but it isn't impossible. Women will probably have a very hard time getting lean without cardio, since they generally have a very low maintenance anyway, but it isn't impossible.

I've cut up a couple or three times now. Once on a protein only diet, that included only very, very minimal amounts of carbs and the only fats were the 6 fish oils I took a day - I also did almost no cardio, just lifting. Worked beautifully.



Want to know The Best Way to cut? Whichever way is easiest for you to keep doing for a long period of time. A diet you can barely stay on is a diet that probably isn't the best for you. Low carbs work for a lot of people, and that is great. But some people can barely think while on low carbs and never adapt to it - probably not the best diet for them.
 
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(Aaron_F @ May 16 2007,01:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">oh my</div>oh my, oh my (repetition for emphasis)  
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(scientific muscle @ May 15 2007,20:19)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">actually I plan on doing a low-fat, low-carb, high protein diet.  So the caloric deficit will be pretty high and I can shed the weight faster.  Will have to keep the lifting heavy and the protein heavy to spare lean mass.</div>
Now, yer talkin!

The only thing I would change, tho, is at least have moderate fat intake, as opposed to low. Healthy doses of &quot;good&quot; fats such as extra virgin olive oil are great for keeping T-levels elevated, as well as staving off hunger pangs more effectively than calories from carbs do.

Also (and this is just my personal experience), you're much better off trying to shed the fat slowly than you are quickly. It's much easier to retain muscle this way. If you drop weight too fast, you'll lose too much muscle, and believe me, there is nothing more disheartening than watching all your muscular gains go down the crapper. It's happened to me...many times...before I finally slowed things up, and went for a modest 1-2 pound weight loss per month.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">So why is it that many, many people have gotten shredded on relatively high-carb, low-fat diets?</div>

No arguing there, but there is a difference between the &quot;weight watchers&quot; approach to dieting and what a bodybuilder does. Most people who lose weight do not care about musculature...or body comp. They care about having the scale numbers go down, period. It takes a very specific diet that will enable both muscle retention and fat loss.

Can I sit here and say that no high carb diet ever produced a ripped, muscular body? Of course not! But far and away, the low carb/high protein/high fat approach is top notch for bodybuilders....
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(Lol @ May 15 2007,20:31)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Aaron_F @ May 16 2007,01:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">oh my</div>oh my, oh my (repetition for emphasis)  
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Lions, tigers &amp; bears?

Anyhoo, it's a treat to actually have an hour to spend discussing a topic that so many of us are so passionate about.

If everyone agreed about everything all the time, there would be no need for boards like this
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<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Can I sit here and say that no high carb diet ever produced a ripped, muscular body? Of course not! But far and away, the low carb/high protein/high fat approach is top notch for bodybuilders.... </div>
Why is that?
 
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