Dialing up HST for a cut

Discussion in 'Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST)' started by tdawg_33, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. Greenlantern11B

    Greenlantern11B New Member

    I lost a craptola of strength cutting....Gonna start over lifting the weight i last lifted 5x.

    FOrever Depressed :(

    I'm keto'ing though.... and i do HIIT when my keto headaches allow me to
     
  2. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    Some temporary strength loss is normal on a cut. Usually once you get back to maintenance calories, you will gain the strength back. Just keep maintaining where you can and increase when you can but don't push too hard for increases. You don't want to kill yourself or anything.
    If you are on very low calories, you would probably want more protein than that depending on the amount of lean mass you are carrying. Example - 180 lbs of lean mass, with very low calories you would want to get 270 - 360 grams. The lower you cut your calories, the higher you need to take your protein in order to prevent too much muscle loss.
     
  3. T-man

    T-man New Member

    Such a fine balance....I guess if it was easy everyone could do this. Thanks, Tot.
     
  4. tdawg_33

    tdawg_33 New Member

    I have had to totally change my mindset since I started cutting. I realized I simply must put in the work and lift heavy enough to preserve what I gained on my bulk. Doesnt matter whats on the bar, it's just a number. I let my strength levels for the day determine what each session will be like. I have tried to pick up the pace of my workouts instead to get more of a cardiovascular effect. It's helped me feel like I am still working as hard
     
  5. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    Yes, not a lot of point in progressing the weight on a cut. You are not going to grow...

    Just keep lifting heavy a few times per week to help maintain your hard-earned muscle mass.
     
  6. T-man

    T-man New Member

    Went much better yesterday. I upped the daily calories by 500 after my difficulties earlier this week and I was able to hit all my weights/reps, although they were the previous session's weights. I continued the drop sets on the final working set and it felt pretty good. I was also down a pound for the week.
     
  7. wwazza

    wwazza New Member

    starting cutting

    I'm about 2 or 3 sessions from finishing my last cycle of 5RM's then I'm ready for cutting. I've got my macro's sorted and I'm going to slightly adjust my workout but I'm not exactly sure how the transition should go.When I've finished my last session, should I have a few days off to recover then start the tens and my diet from that day or gradually reduce cals?I take it a cycle should take 6 weeks now if the 15's are going to be skipped. This I hope will allow for two complete cycles With no SD to knock 12-14lbs off and get me back down to 10%bf.I would say my last 3 HST bulking cycles have been a success with a gain in weight of 24-26lbs, hopefully half of that lean muscle! Significant increases in chest, back and arm development, but some added flab around the middle and chest. Apparently my scales now say just under 20%bf so here goes nothing and let the shredding begin!
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  8. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    I would take a few days off but once you start your cycle, start the diet right then. Gradually reducing calories doesn't really do much except get you accustomed to the hunger a little. But if hunger bothers you on a diet, then you are going to have problems - you will learn to ignore hunger. If you don't jump right in to the diet, it will be harder in the long run to maintain the diet.

    Don't fret too much about your scale saying you are close to 20% bodyfat. Typically the scales aren't very reliable. I'd recommend getting a set of calipers and taking measurements on a regular basis, then just track the average change in caliper readings. That will give you a better idea of how you are doing.

    Now remember... your main goal here is to maintain your current strength levels. As long as you keep hitting your RMs at the end of each block and those caliper readings are going down, you are good to go. Don't get hung up too much on your actual bodyweight or how you look in the mirror. Your muscles will start to look deflated after a while, you will start to have less energy than you did when you were bulking. But when you are done with your diet and eating normal again, your muscles will lose that deflated look. You will get your energy back. It's all temporary. The biggest mistake most guys make is that they psych themselves out during a diet, think they are shrinking, losing all their gains, and quit the diet. You really have to ignore the mirror. Just rely on two different sets of numbers - your RMs and your caliper measurements.

    Once you get some calipers, use this site to do your measurements - http://www.linear-software.com/online.html
    Don't worry too much about what it says your bodyfat is at if you use one of the calculators. This will vary a lot week to week, day to day, depending on how you measured that particular day. I recommend for ease that you just pick three sites and track those. Chest, abdomen and thigh are easy to measure yourself and once you get used to it, you can usually do your measurements more or less the same way each time to minimize variations from measurement error, so you can better track actual changes.

    If you aren't already using a program or something to track calories, I recommend fitday.com - pretty easy to use once you set it up. I hear there are some decent apps for the android or iphone so those might be worth looking into as well.
     
  9. wwazza

    wwazza New Member

    Cheers for the great response, I have actually gone ahead and started the diet today as well as a good day out on my new road bike. I'll be starting my first week of tens tomorrow followed by some low intensity cardio and I'll be tracking my macros on myfitnesspal. This is a pretty good app you can get on both smartphones and once you customise it on the web based software it makes following your goals pretty easy.I will go ahead and get some calipers and try not to get to cut up about the progressive weight loss. I have done a successful cut before, but didn't have the muscle mass to pull it off, so just looked pretty skinny. I am looking forward to the results this time so hunger pains shouldn't bother me so much. (just refused a custard and fruit tart off the wife!)Regarding the workout, I'm going to drop my leg workouts Leg Press and SLDL as I have aquired a bad case of sore knees which I can only put down to the increased load put on them by 6 months of training them every other day. I will hope to retain leg muscle by doing plenty of cycling and maybe some simple ISO's once a week. This should give me more focus to concentrate on my upper body work at least until my knees are on the mend.Well here goes nothing, wish me luck!
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  10. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    You could keep the leg exercises but go to just once a week on them and keep them in the tens, might help. I would also recommend investing in some TK knee sleeves at the very least, I started using those a while back on leg days and haven't had knee pain since. I train the legs minimally while cutting and don't generally do 5s with legs (nor with arm isos) since you will generally have a lower fat intake during a cut - I find a lower calorie intake and especially restricted fat intake makes heavier loads harder on the joints. But regardless, I recommend you look into the knee sleeves. I picked up a pair for $30 USD. I got mine off Amazon, not sure what would be the best place for you or how much you would have to pay (I'm assuming you are in the UK?) but look around and see. He makes elbow sleeves too but I haven't tried those.
     
  11. capinsac

    capinsac New Member

    Any reason why not to SD before you start cutting? I'm just finishing my third week of 5s and I have a little bit of a cold and was thinking to SD, then start back with the 10s on a calorie deficit.
     
  12. wwazza

    wwazza New Member

    I had a little SD before I started cutting, well 4 days actually but I usually train every other day, and I felt right to start cutting after this short break. I wouldn't take much longer off though, you muscles need to be worked as soon as that calorie deficit starts.

    Drink plenty of water and try dose up on vit c. I take glutamine also and my colds barely affect my performance at all now.

    I'm in my last week of 5RM's on a cut now and it has been an experience I tell u. My strength levels have been up and down this last week and It definately comes down to meal timing. I've found that I do need a good amount of carbs pre-workout and my lifts have been better earlier on in the day than later, say after work. I do plan on another mini SD though as my shoulders are feeling it badly now. I should have stayed away from the boxing HIIT I think.

    5 weeks in and about 10-11 lbs down and from 20%bf to 16%bf approx. Still hitting my max lifts though. Happy Days!
     
  13. capinsac

    capinsac New Member

    Thanks for the advice. Going to start my cut tomorrow after my St. Patrick's binge :)
     
  14. wwazza

    wwazza New Member

    Well, I think I'm pretty much ready for a mini SD as last night I pulled my back doing Bent over rows and I've been at my 5RM's for 6 sessions, with some workouts better than others, but always got the reps in at the desired weight.

    Is it neccessary to eat at maintenance for the upcoming days I won't be training?

    I've been at 2300 cals 226P 170C 75F. Dropped 11lbs, just dipped below 170lbs and now at around 15%bf.

    I've been working out every other day and doing cardio on the days inbetween. How should I go about this mini SD and recovery period for my lower back and shoulders?
     
  15. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    I would recommend you either taper calories back up to maintenance over the course of a few days or just do a straight up refeed and then eat at maintenance thereafter. Make sure you are taking your fish oils. Maintenance calories will be important for the healing process. When you begin again, you can do 10s before heading back into 5s. I would not go right back to your 5 RMs though.
     
  16. wwazza

    wwazza New Member

    Cheers totz.

    My only concern is wondering what maintenance is. If I stop with the exercising I won't be burning as many calories. This will surely drop my maintenance figure of around 2800 cals. I think I burn on average around 4-500 cals a day, this would take me back down towards my current daily calorie level of 2300. I definitely need to give the weights a break but think I could continue with the cardio, thus allowing me to up my calories a bit to help my body recover. maybe go up to 2600-2700 and throwing in half hour of light jogging a day.

    hope this makes sense

    I think it just feels a bit strange increasing calories in the middle of a cut when I'm doing so well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  17. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    If you weigh around 170 lbs then your maintenance should be around 2500 if you estimate conservatively. I would start there and add in activity if necessary. Just make sure you rest the muscles in question that are not feeling right.
     
  18. keldjoran

    keldjoran New Member

    Hi Tot,

    I'm on my fourth week of a cut, did 10s and will be doing the final 5s tomorrow, after that should I go onto 2 weeks of 5RM? I see other posts on here about people doing 5RM weeks, but it sounds like you just repeat the 6 sessions of 5s over and over again. I'm thinking 5RM weeks could burn me out. What do you do?

    Thanks!
     
  19. wwazza

    wwazza New Member

    Continue with your 5RM's if u can. I found my strength levels dropped at the end of my first cutting cycle and I had to rest pause even to get to 5 reps with weights I could previously lift no problem when I was bulking. I'm on my second cycle now and 2 sessions away from my previous 5RM, however I don't think I'll reach them as I just managed to pump out 5 reps on some of my lifts today and don't think I'll be able to increase any more without dropping reps or incorporating rest pause techniques.

    I'm mainly struggling with flat bench (7.5kg down) and military press (5kg down) although I'm maintaining strength with dips and pull ups probably because I've dropped 16lbs in body weight.

    I have stalled a bit now though so dropped the cals a little further and upped the cardio to twice a day. Starting to look really lean now so happy with the results. Muscles are a bit deflated when not being trained but I think they'll pump back up again nice when I start eating normal again.

    I'll see where I'm at in a few weeks and decide whether to do another cutting cycle or just maintain for a while. While I'm getting fitter I'm contemplating doing a triathlon so that throws more training in to the mix considering my swimming technique is quite poor at the moment.

    Good luck with your goals!
     
  20. keldjoran

    keldjoran New Member

    Thanks! I'll move onto the 5RMs then and drop the volume to just 2 sets
    I'm only on my 3rd cycle total of HST, the first two were bulking, this is my first cutting.

    A triathlon? wow, you have more dedication than I do haha, good luck!
     

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